Credit card charge backs

[indie_pizza]

Registered Guest:

:roll:

You made the mistake of take a credit card from a kid.

Couldn’t disagree with this more. Maybe 10 years ago, but the way cards are used as currency now makes this completely unrealistic. It wasn’t a legitimate mistake by the OP taking a stolen card, the kid and the mom are in the wrong here.

 

[smeagol8]

Registered Guest:

:roll:

You made the mistake of take a credit card from a kid. Did you think it was the kids credit card? Did the signature on the slip match the signature on the card? Does that kid have the same name as his mother?

I assume “no” to all of the above. Bottom line is it is your fault that you got scammed. You didn’t follow the rules for taking credit cards. You should have refused the transaction. Do you really think the mother should be responsible when you shouldn’t have taken the card in the first place?

We’ve done the same thing. It’s a chance you chose to take, and we do all the time. Sometimes we get bitten.

.
.
.yup If it wasn’t the kids card, it was stolen. Your fault.

 

[indie_pizza]

smeagol8:

yup If it wasn’t the kids card, it was stolen. Your fault.

I can’t tell if that’s sarcasm or not. My wife and I have 6 checking accounts, a couple of them I never bothered to cards for, and just use hers when I need to, often without her knowing beforehand. Would you consider them stolen?

 

[anselmospizza]

We are all in business to make money period. You can only take "the customer is always right"approach so far. Your business is entitled to that money and you earned it. Just because someone thinks it is unjust because their kid ordered the pizza, does not put the blame squarely on your shoulders nor should it be chalked up to just another chargeback loss. Go get your money. If a customer broke into your house or harmed your family, do you look the other way because it is a customer. There probably is a more delicate approach than simply filing charges immediately. The parent might not be as receptive in a phone conversation, so you may want to send a letter stating your case as politely as possible giving them a time limit when you would like a resolution. If they do not comply with said resolution, then you will have no choice but to file a case with small claims court. Of course you will take every opportunity to express your gratitude to said customer for their patronage of your business, but it is important to understand that you are a business first and foremost and using the preceding post on this subject with the Best Buy analogy is a perfect one. Just because I am a regular customer does not mean my kid is entitled to free DVD’s there whether they used my card or stole them or whatever. In this crazy world of pizza, it seems like we somehow are always expected to operate under different rules than the rest of the business world. It is amazing what people’s expectations are when they order pizza. People all the time seem to want to haggle prices, or not bring in coupons for deals that they said they were using coupons on, or complain when specials change, or want donations and free pizzas for events, etc… I value each and every customer that I have and will pick my battles over these matters on a case by case basis. Of course I don’t want to lose an every week customer because they forgot their $2 off coupon. But hell it doesn’t mean I have to love it! Imagine trying that stuff at your local grocery store, or better yet complain at the gas station that last time you came in gas was 25 cents cheaper…Gotta draw the line somewhere.

 

[system]

You could just send him the bill? The mother said her son charged the pizza’s without her approval…not that he did not order them. I would call and verify the billing address for “Greg,” her son…and certify an invoice over too him. Stick with the valued customer approach and inform her that it is because of her past history that you will keep her family account open for 30 days to give her son time to make the family account current. After that, you will just hand it over to collections like any other outstanding debt. Let’s see how junior takes a hit on his credit report. All for some pizza!!! Hopefully mom understands how the real world works and steps up here! :!:

 

[smeagol8]

indie pizza:

smeagol8:

yup If it wasn’t the kids card, it was stolen. Your fault.

I can’t tell if that’s sarcasm or not. My wife and I have 6 checking accounts, a couple of them I never bothered to cards for, and just use hers when I need to, often without her knowing beforehand. Would you consider them stolen?

.
.
.
Technically, yes. A credit card is valid ONLY for the person whose name is printed on it. Yeah, lots of people let it slide, but it is still true. Debit cards? As long as you know the pin number, I guess your OK…

 

[Daddio]

smeagol8:

Technically, yes. A credit card is valid ONLY for the person whose name is printed on it. Yeah, lots of people let it slide, but it is still true. Debit cards? As long as you know the pin number, I guess your OK…

Most of the CC in Canada are now Chip and PIN now. I have portable machines for my drivers. The customers slide the card in the reader and put in the PIN. No more need to check ID. and NO CARD, NO FOOD.

 

[wa_dave]

I think we must have a different system here in Australia or people are more relaxed.
We take numerous over the phone credit card payments for someone in the family to pick up or for delivery and in 5 1/2 years have had only one question a payment and that was just after we took over the shop. The previous details on the slip had the shop name and we couldn’t use it so we had our Pty Ltd name that is nothing to do with the pizza shop name. The customer didn’t know who the heck our business Pty Ltd name was. This was explained to the processor who in turn explained to the customer who understood and the payment stood.
99% of our customers who pay by card over the phone never sign their slip and not once have we had a query from them. Too trusting? Maybe but then again we know who most of our delivery customers are and they order weekly or every 2 -3 weeks so we have a solid record of them. Or maybe we are just in a trusting commuity.
Like Daddio said a lot of cards are now inserted and you have to PIN. The card is checked and verified on the spot through the terminal, but we don’t have portable ones for the drivers (not as well off financially as Daddio ).
The cards I would be more concerned about are the new pass by ones where it is just passed by the front of the terminal and no PIN or other details are required. It automatically approves transactions up to $100. There are reported cases in Europe where crooks are passing a scammer across the rear of a male where they keep their wallet and if a swipeless card is there it shows up and the crook puts in a “sale” over and over up to the $100 limit. We refused the offer for one of these terminals as I see major problems coming up in the future.
Dave

 

[system]

Just curious… does anyone use the “wave” feature or have a reader in their stores? I have two cards that are chipped for it…and used it once at a gas station, out of town, and then there is only one place in town here that has the readers inside, Panera’s. I am sure the larger cities will be way ahead of my area… I am still going to be a fan of the portable readers and even then…add in the Aussie/European PIN to secure things even more!

 

[pizzapirate]

I understand that we all have things that bother us and get under our skin, but I just can’t see following up with this as time well spent. In all likelyhood, this will not happen again with this customer. The kid will have at least received a reprimand from his mom and she will continue to order. Doing anything about what happened will not have any impact upon future chargebacks.

Its not like these chargeback people out there have their own forum online and will discuss how you would not let this drop – and then advice each other not to pull it with you! :lol:

 

[system]

Dang it Pirate… just when I was about to launch my “SCREWTHEPIZZAGUY.COM” website. Oh a lighter note… even without putting it in a search…I have a feeling this one is already taken!

 

[Rick_G]

Unfortunately I would not be surprised if there were a site dedicated to ripping people off for food, gas, rent etc.
We all remember a while back somebody posted a youtube link to someone advising how to rip off a pizza shop by eavesdropping for name and what was ordered while a walk in customer orders and then calling said shop and complaining in order to get a free pizza.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&xhr=t&...gc.r_pw.&fp=50f2efee8263b962&biw=1280&bih=752

 

[MrHowie]

I throw my opinion in too. I think it’s probably a waste of time. I would just tell her you can’t except credit cards from her address. But ultimately if you sent her a certified letter stating that your driver has a description of who used the card and you will be pressing charges against them, she will probably back down. Write a letter to your processor that the name on the card is matched to that address and you make frequent deliveries there and that the card was present (if it was) and they may let you off.

I get a lot of people that want to pay by card for pickup because their son (mom, daughter, sister, aunt, friend) will be picking up the order and don’t have the card with them. Probably 75% of the time they flip out and tell me how ridiculous I am. Sorry, store policy. No card present, no sale.

 

[royster13]

I am curious about how many “no card present” transactions go through without a problem?..Are there enough transactions that go through without a problem to make up for the odd bad one?..

 

[paul7979]

royster13:

I am curious about how many “no card present” transactions go through without a problem?..Are there enough transactions that go through without a problem to make up for the odd bad one?..

Of the over 2500 monthly credit card transactions we do monthly we average less than one chargeback per month. Of course they come grouped two or three at a time that come from the same address. With such a small chargeback rate, I don’t worry if the card is present or not. We regularly have people who call us from work and order for their children at home. Even more common is parents of college students calling from their hometown to place an order for their kid here. Could I avoid these 8 or so chargebacks every year if I required the card to be present? Probably. But how many orders would I lose out on? In the big picture, the money I lose in chargebacks is a drop in a bucket compared to the cost of merchant fees associated with accepting credit cards. I’ll go so far as to note the chargebacks in the computer and refuse to accept credit cards or checks from an address that has multiple chargebacks but that’s about it.

 

[brad_randall]

paul7979:

In the big picture, the money I lose in chargebacks is a drop in a bucket compared to the cost of merchant fees associated with accepting credit cards.

+1

 

[pizzapirate]

paul7979:

royster13:

I am curious about how many “no card present” transactions go through without a problem?..Are there enough transactions that go through without a problem to make up for the odd bad one?..

Of the over 2500 monthly credit card transactions we do monthly we average less than one chargeback per month. Of course they come grouped two or three at a time that come from the same address. With such a small chargeback rate, I don’t worry if the card is present or not. We regularly have people who call us from work and order for their children at home. Even more common is parents of college students calling from their hometown to place an order for their kid here. Could I avoid these 8 or so chargebacks every year if I required the card to be present? Probably. But how many orders would I lose out on? In the big picture, the money I lose in chargebacks is a drop in a bucket compared to the cost of merchant fees associated with accepting credit cards. I’ll go so far as to note the chargebacks in the computer and refuse to accept credit cards or checks from an address that has multiple chargebacks but that’s about it.

ditto

 

[Rick_G]

I guess if malicious chargebacks were common enough to be more than just something that makes u upset then somebody would have come with a way to make money off of them like all the companies that started procesing NSF checks.

 

[paul7979]

Rick G:

I guess if malicious chargebacks were common enough to be more than just something that makes u upset then somebody would have come with a way to make money off of them like all the companies that started procesing NSF checks.

There are those that make money off of them. It’s your processor that charges you $25 for each one. :lol:
I really don’t think anyone would have a legal leg to stand on trying to collect these chargebacks. Possibly through a civil court, but even that I doubt. Unfortunately the law (at least here in this town and county) only sees the card holder as a victim, not the business. This despite the fact that the business winds up being the only one out any money.

 

[alotadough]

UPDATE

So after reading everyone’s comments (thanks all) I decided to take this up with the police.I love the way this shit works. They understand my situation but can’t do anything unless the card holder reports the card lost or stolen, which is probably not gonna happen. That way I can put in a complaint for fraud. They advised me to call the processor and tell them if the card is not lost or stolen then I should not have a charge back.
I have a call in and waiting for a supervisor to contact me after a review.
I doubt this happens to any big retailer its us little guys that get the shaft. In 17 years I’ve been in business I’ve never won a charge back issue, because 60% of my credit card orders are for delivery and not swiped. I just thought that since it was the card holders kid I might have a chance of collecting the 140.00. Wish full thinking I guess.LOL
I will let you know what happens next.