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Delivery Points

It does seem more of a pain than it should be,or maybe its just from the way its being told from certain points…
 
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Oh Gregster with your badass battleship avatar, please just go get a job at Wal-Mart and let someone else have your sub-minimum wage job. I truly hope you work for one of the big boys and sue the pants off them for making you work such a terrible job that you haven’t left in the 1 1/2 years I’ve been visiting these boards. You wouldn’t last a month in my shop, my employees would bounce you so fast.
 
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seriously Greg, why don’t you man up and discuss these points with your boss, instead of complaining to the internet constantly. If he won’t pay you what you think is fair, get another job.
 
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indie pizza:
Oh Gregster with your badass battleship avatar, please just go get a job at Wal-Mart and let someone else have your sub-minimum wage job. I truly hope you work for one of the big boys and sue the pants off them for making you work such a terrible job that you haven’t left in the 1 1/2 years I’ve been visiting these boards. You wouldn’t last a month in my shop, my employees would bounce you so fast.
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pjcampbell:
seriously Greg, why don’t you man up and discuss these points with your boss, instead of complaining to the internet constantly. If he won’t pay you what you think is fair, get another job.
Why don’t both of you address the safety issues I brought up instead of making the post about me? I raised valid points and gave reasoning for my conclusions. Instead of coming out on the side of safety for delivery drivers, you suggest that I should just quit or move on. I hope you don’t treat your own employees they same way when they bring up safety concerns. :roll:
 
Your safety concerns for the delivery point may be valid. I think the individual shop owner can take these points and use them at their discretion. For example a delivery point at a park during the day seems fine. But maybe not at night.

You were the one who brought up how you work for less than minimum wage though.
 
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I’m sorry that some of you feel that discussing the safety aspects of delivery is like “beating a dead horse”.

If you in fact disagree with what I said, you could just type your opposing view and explain it like I did. If I responded to others posts here the same way some here respond to me, I’d likely be banned. I wonder if the mod’s feel the same way.
 
Not one person said talking about safety was like beating a dead horse in fact most have agreed with the point you’ve made about delivery points.

They are talking about your uncanny ability to turn everything into a minimum wage issue.

But you’re a clever guy so you know exactly what we are talking about don’t you! You’ve been bearable for a few weeks now so stopping playing games and spoiling it all otherwise that’ll be two forums you’re getting a hard time on at the moment! :roll:
 
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Wizzle Wassell:
Not one person said talking about safety was like beating a dead horse in fact most have agreed with the point you’ve made about delivery points.

They are talking about your uncanny ability to turn everything into a minimum wage issue.
Safety frequently IS an issue in minimum and sub-minimum wage jobs. Low paid workers are very frequently taken advantage of and expected to work in the most dangerous conditions. Workers who complain are told to shut up and stop complaining, and are threatened with termination if they continue or threaten to report the problems to authorities. They very fact that I am being chastised here by the owners and managers in the very same industry I comment about just lends credence to the notion that anyone speaking up about workplace safety and pay is not welcome and will be dealt with by intimidation and threats instead of addressing and correcting the issues.

I read news articles and lawsuits nearly every day that affirm this happens across the country. Here is a recent article that shows that I am not alone in my assertions:
Posted by GetLegal.com on February 15, 2010

By Brandon Sipherd

Adriatic Italian Restaurant & Pizzeria, a 20-year midtown establishment, is being sued for violating federal and state labor laws. Adriatic has been accused of underpaying its delivery workers in violation of wage and hour laws.

Restaurant delivery people are some of the lowest-paid workers in New York City and oftentimes they are forced to work in deplorable working conditions. Some delivery workers work 70-hour weeks for only $10 or $15 per shift including tips and others must pay up front for each meal that is delivered.

These delivery workers are typically subject to abuse, crime and physical danger. In 2005, a Chinese deliveryman in Queens was robbed and murdered by a couple of teenagers. Then in 2008, the owners of Saigon Grill in Manhattan had to pay $4.6 million in back pay for its violations of wage and hour laws.

Now city and state officials, government agencies and a restaurant industry trade group are trying to protect this especially vulnerable group of employees. Unfortunately, many of these employees are undocumented immigrants who do not complain for fear of losing their jobs or even greater disciplinary action, such as deportation.

Over the past eight months in Brooklyn, the District Attorney’s office has prosecuted nine cases of delivery workers who have been attacked. To further discourage violent crimes against delivery workers, the District Attorney’s office is considering increasing jail time for these types of crimes.

However, even more widespread than the threat of violence, delivery employees constantly face a threat to their livelihood as employers continue to underpay them. It is commonplace for employers in the restaurant industry to pay employees a shift pay, which is generally well below the legal minimum hourly wage.

In November, the New York State Department of Labor, in a random sweep of 25 restaurants in Park Slope, Brooklyn, found that only two employers were not violating wage and hour laws. It also found that 207 workers were underpaid by almost $1 million in total. Most delivery workers surveyed were found to work around 70 hours per week while only receiving a weekly salary ranging from $210 to $275. Hopefully, local and state officials will be successful in their efforts to enforce current wage and hour laws among the restaurant industry in New York City.

I am not accusing ANYONE here of doing any of this, but this and many other things I have read say that these kinds of violations are COMMON in the industry and that is why I speak out on these issues. The board admins have given me permission to continue posting here as long as I do it respectfully and I certainly believe I have been doing just that. I would hope that you who disagree with me could say your piece respectfully as well and leave it at that. But frankly I believe that the above posts are telling me to ‘shut up’ and stop complaining and I don’t take that lightly at all coming from the very people who are in the same position to tell their own workers the same thing if they ever speak up about safety or labor violations at work.

I firmly believe that I contribute very useful information to this community and also offer a unique informed perspective to what is posted here. If you disagree with my points of view, then by all means state why and explain your case. But if you simply don’t like my presence here I suggest that you bring it up with the admins and keep your insults to yourselves.
 
gregster:
But frankly I believe that the above posts are telling me to ‘shut up’ and stop complaining and I don’t take that lightly at all coming from the very people who are in the same position to tell their own workers the same thing if they ever speak up about safety or labor violations at work.
Nobody told you to shut up Greg. When you put it in a quotation you are implying that somebody actually said that. Nobody did, and I don’t believe anybody would. Nobody told you to stop complaining either. All they said was that they’re well versed in your opinions, and perhaps it’s time to move the conversation forward. If I read correctly, the gist of one post is that it’s time to stop talking about fixing things and let us know what you’re going to do to actually fix them. I think some are tired of hearing you preach to us (whom you don’t know) while at the same time continuing to let your employer run roughshod over you and your co-workers.
gregster:
I firmly believe that I contribute very useful information to this community and also offer a unique informed perspective to what is posted here. If you disagree with my points of view, then by all means state why and explain your case.
Herein lies the problem - I don’t think anybody disagrees with your points of view, hence why nobody has explained their case. I certainly don’t want my employees to view me the way you view your employer. The way you attempt to get your points across, however, can be fairly accusatory. Just as you wouldn’t want us to assume you’re a stereotypical driver we don’t want you to assume we are stereotypical owners. Your posts, intended or not, seem to presuppose that most of us are breaking the law or don’t take our employees’ safety and concerns into account.

I think you see owners/managers through your PJ United glasses only. I’ve said this before to you - look around and count how many regular participants here are Big 3 owners. I don’t know of any. Most of us are 1 or 2 unit owners that eat, breathe and sleep our businesses. My employees are as important to me as my family; I bet many owners here feel the same.

Your enemy (and seemingly that of most TTPG members) is the Big 3. Guess what? It’s the same for the owners on this board. The Big 3 has destroyed this industry in their race to the bottom. It’s a daily battle to explain why we can’t sell our pizza for $5.00.

You see, we’re on the same side. You want to force the Big 3 to pay better? I’m right there behind you. To put out my product at my service level I have to pay for quality employees. I can’t pull any warm body off the street like the Big 3. My part-time high school cooks make more than the AM’s at a Big 3 store. I can’t have a manager that doesn’t give two sh*its about service, so I have to pay dearly for a professional.

As I’ve said to you before, I believe you are preaching to the wrong audience. Most of us here would love to see the Big 3 disappear so this industry can go back to providing a quality product at a fair price. Paying employees garbage wages sure doesn’t lend itself to a level playing field.
gregster:
But if you simply don’t like my presence here I suggest that you bring it up with the admins and keep your insults to yourselves.
I don’t think anybody insulted you. As a matter of fact I think everyone is pretty cordial to you, so please don’t try to play the martyr role. Can you imagine the response we would get if one of us started posting on TTPG? Do you think anybody there would tolerate us long enough to discuss the issues that owners face? There would be no way to contain the vitriol and name calling. In light of that, I think you’re greeted with a great deal of professionalism here.
 
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Gregster,I also believe that what most people are saying is that if any post even mentions the word delivery or driver you are right there telling them about wage laws and safety issues even when thats not what the post is about. This post for example was about what people thought about delivery points. All you had to say was “As I driver myself I would feel unsafe doing this personally” and left it at that. I’m sure noone minds you adding your two cents worth as long as it deals with the topic and doesn’t take 1/2 the page. If wages are so important to you than start a post on just that and leave it at that and let everyone reply to that one.
 
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^^^^^^^^here here well said!

Gregster - as far as I’m concerned the risk to staff delivering to a delivery point or anywhere has little (if anything) to do with how much I pay them and more to do with how seriously I take safety in general. Sure pay violation is serious and it may be symptomatic of other issues (such as not having non-owned motor) but this thread was about delivering to a delivery point.
The board admins have given me permission to continue posting here as long as I do it respectfully and I certainly believe I have been doing just that. I would hope that you who disagree with me could say your piece respectfully as well and leave it at that.
We’ve all got permission to post here, the fact they’ve had to talk to you about your posting is because of the very way you go about it. The fact they’ve allowed you to ‘continue’ doesn’t give you any special right or add any weight to what you are trying to say.

Piper - I’ve gotta say I think your also looking very one sided. There are good and bad employers/operators on both sides of the fence and I think you do a dis-service to the good Big 3 Franchisees (and there are many of them - maybe a few on this board as well!). From what I’ve seen of gregsters posts and those on TTPG there are just as many if not more indy’s with wage/safety issues than BIG franchises (inc the Big 3). So to say that pay issues are purely down to the Big3 is very simplistic and IMO plain wrong.

Either side of one of my shops are two small indy’s. Neither have non-owned motor insurance, both staff pay under the counter, both have pretty much constant attention from the local food hygiene inspectors, one closes every other month or so because they haven’t paid a bill and yep both of them pay staff less than me. Are they big 3 - nope.

I’m not saying that the rush to the bottom of the market is a good thing FAR from it but that their marketing strategy. I charge much more than my local competition does it hurt me, we I don’t get the bottom feeders but I’m a lot busier than my competition because to me (and my customers) cost simply isn’t everything.
 
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You’re right WW, so let me rephrase that a bit. The main enemy of the TTPG members seems to be the large multi-unit corporate owners such as NPC and PJ United. When I say “Big 3” owners, that’s who I’m referring to despite the fact there are many 1 and 2 unit Big 3 owners out there.

So yeah, I don’t want to group those guys with PJ United’s of the world.
 
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Piper:
The main enemy of the TTPG members seems to be the large multi-unit corporate owners such as NPC and PJ United.
the interesting parts of that are:

a) most of the real horror stories over there (and the quote Gregster posts) i.e. 'I don’t get any mileage, am paid below MW (not even tip credit) are not big 3 and
b) even though Gregster works for one of ‘the bad guys’ he chooses to stay as he ends better of than working else where - go figure that one!
 
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Wizzle Wassell:
b) even though Gregster works for one of ‘the bad guys’ he chooses to stay as he ends better of than working else where - go figure that one!
That’s what makes me loose my internet civility from time to time. It’s just constant b****ing from him about employee rights, how hard is life is because of his employer but constantly talks like he’s the baddest driver in the city. Instead of annoying the community here with his of base accusations, he should be filing a complaint about his wages or just take his services to a competitor. If he’s making under minimum wage, then there are a lot of opportunities for him to get a pay increase somewhere else.

Something tells me he’s just one of those miserable people who isn’t happy unless he has something to complain about and all his problems are never his fault, the would is just out to get him. :roll:
 
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Couldn’t leave well enough alone and let the topic drop off the front page? Whose ‘beating the horse’ now? :roll:

Do you want me to respond in kind by openly posting what my beliefs are about the motivations and reasoning of pizza shop owners? :oops:

Otherwise, if you disagree with anything I have posted, I’d be happy to discuss it with you. 🙂
 
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