Online Ordering

[Registered_Guest]

Mike -

I’m curious why you selected a percentage pricing model vs. fixed price. As you mentioned above, all of the costs are fixed (like sending a fax) - so why would it cost more for an online order that contains 1 $10 pie vs. an online order that contains 1 $20 pie?

Why not just charge 50 cents (or whatever) per order?

 

[Mike-eMenuExpress]

I use Point of Success. Asking if the cost is worth it, I would have to see all the features and the total cost of using it to determine if it’s worth it. That just happens to be a feature for me that I would like to have and ranks high on my list.

If you say your service is “roughly half the cost of the bigger guys” but you don’t offer all the features of the bigger guys, then it would have to be considered on a case by case basis. Not saying it’s not a great service. I really don’t know that. Just giving you feedback on a feature that I think is important. It might not be to others.

Just wanted to let you know we inquired with Point of Success last week and heard back today. Very similar response to many of the POS systems.

“Point of Success has a direct integration with BigHoller for Online Ordering. We do not share our API.”

BigHoller seems very much like Registered Guest’s suggestion of HungerRush. Online ordering functionality tightly coupled to certain POS system(s). My guess is many of the POS systems don’t share their API (application program interface) for one of two reasons. Either they don’t have one or they want to force their restaurants to use their service for online ordering.

I don’t know. I guess my opinion is biased. But as a restaurant paying for a POS system, I’d want to have access via an API. Whether it’s to give access to other external services or perhaps even my own custom development to add on to the POS.

I haven’t had the chance to look into whether or not BigHoller is any good, but maybe that’s an option that would work well for you? Then of course if you’re ever looking to branch out to a system not tied to particular POS system(s) or that offers other features, just let me know.

Good luck.

 

[Mike-eMenuExpress]

Mike -

I’m curious why you selected a percentage pricing model vs. fixed price. As you mentioned above, all of the costs are fixed (like sending a fax) - so why would it cost more for an online order that contains 1 $10 pie vs. an online order that contains 1 $20 pie?

Why not just charge 50 cents (or whatever) per order?

Hello Registered Guest,

Good question and simple answer. We need to be able to afford to stay in business. No sense offering a service to restaurants and then going out of business in a year because we can’t afford to pay developers, designers, and so on… Services like ours have pricing models very similar. Obviously just much more expensive. So coming up with our pricing model structure was relatively simple. Do it the same but as cheap as possible. Figuring what was the lowest rate we could get to was the tough part.

I don’t have an all-inclusive list of every different option of online ordering system and their pricing/features, but my guess would be most that advertise fixed prices are at least one of the following:

1. 
   []Being deceptive in one manner or another. Fees will be added somehow. Some would say we’re nuts for making our pricing so readily available. We may very well lose business to other services that advertise lower costs and then get restaurants on the hook before the “real cost” becomes apparent. Just not something we like the sound of though. If it means losing some business, so be it. I don’t have a business/marketing degree so maybe I’m just being naive.
   []Offering limited features.
   []Making money some other way. Perhaps by selling your customer info. Maybe even to competitors.
   []Systems directly tied to other software packages. For example POS specific online functionality. Sure these can be helpful, but there’s a reason the big online services make 100’s of millions annually. They’re needed because the POS specific systems are limited in what they can do.

So while we would love to be the perfect option for every restaurant, we do realize one size doesn’t fit all. There are varying needs and varying services. We try to fill the need that the bigger guys do while being much cheaper.

 

[bodegahwy]

Our online ordering is fully integrated with our POS:

1. Orders appear on the makeline screen and in all records etc.
2. Nobody has to re-enter anything from a fax!! (Who even has a fax machine anymore!? Yikes!)
3. Menu changes made in the store are uploaded to the online ordering system with a mouse click.
4. We can choose what menu items appear and what coupons are offered online and change those things anytime in moments.
5. Credit card processing is fully integrated as well.

A system that would not do those things would be unacceptable to me and one that does do them is worth more money!

 

[Mike-eMenuExpress]

Our online ordering is fully integrated with our POS:

1. Orders appear on the makeline screen and in all records etc.
2. Nobody has to re-enter anything from a fax!! (Who even has a fax machine anymore!? Yikes!)
3. Menu changes made in the store are uploaded to the online ordering system with a mouse click.
4. We can choose what menu items appear and what coupons are offered online and change those things anytime in moments.
5. Credit card processing is fully integrated as well.

A system that would not do those things would be unacceptable to me and one that does do them is worth more money!

Nice. Sounds like you have an online ordering solution directly from your POS provider. Or at least an online solution that has partnered with the POS system. Happy to hear it’s working well for you.

Regarding faxing… yup. That’s pretty high-tech for some restaurants. So we have to offer it.

Question for the board regarding POS integration. Do you think having an order appear on the POS system is a valuable feature to have if it is only creating generic items on the POS?

For systems like ours (GrubHub, Eat24, Seamless, MyPizza…) which are basically portal sites that can bring in additional customers via a single search page or app and aren’t tied to a particular POS, POS integration of some sort seems to be the Holy Grail of features. It’s pretty tough though considering many POS systems don’t share their API with outside sources. A couple do, and others share functionality via middle-men (however there’s a per transaction cost with these).

Then you have to deal with different data structures of each of the POS systems. Very long story short, the reason why broad integration with these systems doesn’t exist is there’s really no way to convert all the different structures of data to a single structure these sites need to give a good customer experience while ordering. At least not while maintaining a very simple 1-2-3 setup which I believe most restaurants are looking for.

So if an online ordering solution (like ours) were to offer a way to allow orders to be created on your POS system, but the items ordered online were “generic” items instead of the actual items listed in your POS system… would that be a feature you’d be interested in? I guess the downside is that it would confuse inventory and reporting since a pizza sold at the restaurant wouldn’t register in the system the same as a pizza sold online.

We actually have this working now in development for a handful of POS systems and any feedback from restaurant owners would obviously be helpful.

As usual, thanks for any info/comments.

 

[bodegahwy]

I would not consider a system that was not fully integrated. If I want to know how many of each size pizza I sell or which flavor drink sells best I do not wish to reconstruct anything to figure it out. I also want the cash handling to be fully integrated.

Our system includes the online orders just like orders from any of our four order stations. They are identifiable as online orders (by order taker ID) but are otherwise no different in our system in any respect. If the order is paid online by CC that is in the system and the slips print out and tips are reconciled like any other order and cleared on the same batch report. If the order is to be paid upon pickup or collected by the driver that is also fully accounted for in the system.

I think that if you, as a third party supplier want to crack the market you will need to figure out how to do this. Any savings from a less expensive solution would be unattractive if I had to spend time to combine the data or was, worse yet, unable to or if we had to take extra steps to reconcille the money each night.

 

[Mike-eMenuExpress]

I would not consider a system that was not fully integrated. If I want to know how many of each size pizza I sell or which flavor drink sells best I do not wish to reconstruct anything to figure it out. I also want the cash handling to be fully integrated.

Our system includes the online orders just like orders from any of our four order stations. They are identifiable as online orders (by order taker ID) but are otherwise no different in our system in any respect. If the order is paid online by CC that is in the system and the slips print out and tips are reconciled like any other order and cleared on the same batch report. If the order is to be paid upon pickup or collected by the driver that is also fully accounted for in the system.

I think that if you, as a third party supplier want to crack the market you will need to figure out how to do this. Any savings from a less expensive solution would be unattractive if I had to spend time to combine the data or was, worse yet, unable to or if we had to take extra steps to reconcille the money each night.

Thanks. Really do appreciate the info. If you ever want to sign up with us, let me know, I’ll give you a killer deal. Actually working on integration with a particular POS system now. Gonna be a long night.

Sounds like you’re pretty happy with the combination of POS and online solution you have. Which I think is actually kind of rare considering all the options out there.

What happens though if you ever want to branch out and accept orders from some 3rd party site that can bring in additional customers? As in the 3rd party site does its own marketing and the day you sign up, is bringing extra traffic your way? Now you may never want that, but those that do (or otherwise don’t have a POS system with a good online ordering solution) face this integration issue daily.

One way we can completely integrate with the POS systems (those that allow integration) is to pull the menus directly from the POS systems every time a customer views the menu. Which is what I’m doing now. Problem is it loses some functionally.

For example most POS systems have data that looks like this:
Menu > Categories/Groups > Items > Modifier Groups > Modifier Items

Now we can easily just spit that data out to the customers in a decent format. However we’d lose the functionality of having multiple menus (tabs to customers), and there’s no way to tell if one of the “Modifier Groups” is the group meant for Toppings. Which for pizza, we display a different UI for. Kind of like a Pizza Builder that allows half toppings and such.

Who knows, the end solution may be to give the restaurant the choice. Full integration and they’d lose some UI functionality. Or they could choose to go the generic path I specified before, create their menu on our site and deal with any the reporting drawbacks.

Payment however will always be handled before order transmittal of any sort. Regardless of how the restaurant receives notification of the order (POS all the way to the dreaded fax) the money is already transferred to the restaurant’s account by the time they see the order has come in.

 

[bodegahwy]

Sounds like you’re pretty happy with the combination of POS and online solution you have. Which I think is actually kind of rare considering all the options out there.

Yes, we are. Not saying it can not be improved but we are very happy with both our POS and the online solution they offer.

What happens though if you ever want to branch out and accept orders from some 3rd party site that can bring in additional customers?

I must admit that that had not crossed my mind. Nobody offers that kind of 3rd party order routing in our little mountain town… simply put, I am glad I don’t have to deal with it.

 

[Mike-eMenuExpress]

I must admit that that had not crossed my mind. Nobody offers that kind of 3rd party order routing in our little mountain town… simply put, I am glad I don’t have to deal with it.

Ha, lucky you. Many of the restaurants around here (NJ) and especially in and around nyc would probably go out of business if they didn’t use at least one of the 3rd party services. That’s all people use to order in many cases.

Btw, checked out your site. Looks like a great town to relax in for a couple days (with obviously some good food). I occasionally drive out to SLC to visit old friends from college. Next time I do, may have to swing through and grab a slice or two. Can’t ski/snowboard for cr@p but do appreciate the mountains.

 

[RobT]

I would never use an online order module unless it was integrated.

During peak times, this would hamper our service and cause delays

I remember when we started we were getting 0-2 orders a day. Now, roughly 25 or more a day. I’ll gladly pay a nominal fee for integration .

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[Home_Town_Pizza]

Mike, are you trying to position yourself like GrubHub but cheaper? If so, I think it can work for you. But as owners, in my view, we aren’t big fans of GrubHub other than as a way to get more exposure to new customers. Bringing in the a new customer is the only way to justify paying such a high commission per sale. Kind of like marketing. But if you are going that direction, just keep in mind that as soon as we get that new customer, the fight is on to try to get them to come back via a cheaper alternative. That could be trying to get them to call in their order or use an in-house online ordering platform. Most people that do it do it because they feel they can’t afford to not be the only area business on it. It isn’t a big thing around here so I’m not really interested in it. One thing you’re really going to have to work on is building that name recognition among consumers that makes you a service that we can’t ignore.

 

[Patriot_sPizza]

I’ve never gotten many orders from other marketing sources, because our POS/BigHoller system has yet to be beat…we have customized our BH set-up with custom pictures & daily deals that can be done on a moments notice…customization & easeability is a key for many of us…manytimes difficult on other platforms…

 

[Mike-eMenuExpress]

Mike, are you trying to position yourself like GrubHub but cheaper? If so, I think it can work for you. But as owners, in my view, we aren’t big fans of GrubHub other than as a way to get more exposure to new customers. Bringing in the a new customer is the only way to justify paying such a high commission per sale. Kind of like marketing. But if you are going that direction, just keep in mind that as soon as we get that new customer, the fight is on to try to get them to come back via a cheaper alternative. That could be trying to get them to call in their order or use an in-house online ordering platform. Most people that do it do it because they feel they can’t afford to not be the only area business on it. It isn’t a big thing around here so I’m not really interested in it. One thing you’re really going to have to work on is building that name recognition among consumers that makes you a service that we can’t ignore.

Pretty much, though we’re also attempting to bridge the gap a bit with the online POS solutions as well. Sort of a hybrid between the two options. Considering we’ve just started, it’s much easier for us to add features (like POS integration when possible, and faster payment) than it is for the big guys to change their process.

I definitely understand when you say once you get a customer from GrubHub you’re then immediately trying to push them to a cheaper avenue of ordering. Surprisingly though, tons of restaurants around here only use GrubHub/Seamless/Eat24. In fact many use multiple. Seems crazy to me that they not only use the service(s), but also link to the services from their own sites. As in, once the restaurants home page loads, you’re staring at prominently displayed links to these services. It’s like volunteering to shell out 12.5% - 15%+ (plus payment processing fees) on every order! I don’t get it.

So our goal is to come in much cheaper while also having some of the extra features. For those restaurants that do use the bigger services, we say to keep using them if they’re bringing in new business, but don’t link to them from your site. Use us instead for that. Obviously now our customer base will take a while to grow anywhere near the likes of GH, but eventually we’ll also begin bringing in additional customers as well via our search page and apps. How and where to market to customers is the key though to keep costs down. Paying $2.50 per click for Google AdWords can add up pretty darn quick when a sale may only generate $1.50 or so. My guess now is that once enough restaurants are signed up in a certain area, saturate the area with advertising expecting to take a hefty loss at first. Which then hopefully results in regular users of the service.

Don’t want to sound like a broken record, but thanks again for the feedback. Beyond helpful.

 

[Mike-eMenuExpress]

I’ve never gotten many orders from other marketing sources, because our POS/BigHoller system has yet to be beat…we have customized our BH set-up with custom pictures & daily deals that can be done on a moments notice…customization & easeability is a key for many of us…manytimes difficult on other platforms…

Sure, I can definitely see how that level of customization and ease of use is difficult for other platforms. We’re aiming to be there soon with integration of multiple POS systems all while being able to signup and be online selling with everything configured in an hour or two.

 

[Mike-eMenuExpress]

I would never use an online order module unless it was integrated.

During peak times, this would hamper our service and cause delays

I remember when we started we were getting 0-2 orders a day. Now, roughly 25 or more a day. I’ll gladly pay a nominal fee for integration .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great to hear of the success! Many restaurant owners still doubt getting an online presence will help sales. Hope it keeps going for you. That’s a pretty nice increase.

 

[Home_Town_Pizza]

I think it sounds like in large markets where these services are common, you could do pretty well. It doesn’t work for me out here in the sticks. But I could see it being a better alternative for others.

 

[RobT]

Great to hear of the success! Many restaurant owners still doubt getting an online presence will help sales. Hope it keeps going for you. That’s a pretty nice increase.

Don’t tell my competition. Everyone else here is old school

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[Joe]

Mine is $59/month and we use Authorize.net (secure third party provider) for any credit card transactions online for $22/month so my website online ordering site is $81/month. Don’t use anyone that charges a percentage or your success will cost you!

 

[Mike-eMenuExpress]

Mine is $59/month and we use Authorize.net (secure third party provider) for any credit card transactions online for $22/month so my website online ordering site is $81/month. Don’t use anyone that charges a percentage or your success will cost you!

Depends what you’re looking for from your online ordering solution. The more expensive services (while really darn expensive) do bring in additional customers that your typical flat-rate services do not. Advertising/marketing to bring in those additional customers isn’t cheap. Trust me. Google/Bing/Facebook make some big bucks off their ad services.

We try to fall in the middle between those two options regarding cost, but also give added features restaurant owners want (flexible order notification options, faster payment, more menu options like pizza-builder, advertising to bring in additional customers). Plus thanks in part to the guys who have commented above, POS integration. Thanks again for anyone’s input on that. Clover POS is now implemented. With Micros and Aloha on the way.

And for those who really don’t like the fax option, Google Cloud Print is just about done as well. Which will allow for printing of orders directly to any printer at the restaurant (IP printer or typical home printer).

Though even at the $81 a month you’re paying, if a restaurant doesn’t do much online business (say 2 orders a day), the cost to use our service is very similar. Even cheaper now that we’ll soon be offering a special of reduced rates (that are already half that of others) for 6 months, once the POS integration and cloud printing is completely implemented.

 

[MPS]

POS integration is the key for me. If I still have to have someone notice an order pop up on the dash and then enter it in, that takes away a large feature that makes online ordering so attractive - less time spent on entering orders.

Not that different than having an employee stuck on the phone yapping out the deals or the menu to a customer and then having to input the order in.

Actually it would be quicker and more effective since there is less room for mistakes as the order is already printed out and not having any communication issues that happen over the phone.