Online Ordering

[PizzaSoft]

Tell me again how 30-60 orders an hour are getting from your system into my POS? Quickly and accurately?

How long would it take someone to key in an online order if you have a POS and they are pressing buttons rather than typing? I’m not talking about waiting for the customer to decide as with phone calls, I mean you could enter right away without any pauses. Would it really take someone more than 15 seconds to key in two pizzas with specialty toppings, one dinner and some beverages? I remember when I when I was a waiter, it didn’t take me long at all to do an entire table’s order. I could do a party of 4-6 in about 20 seconds. And as far as accuracy goes, well…that was my job. If I screwed up, it meant no tippy and sour customer. So I tried not to screw up and I paid attention. Most servers can run through their POS in their sleep after a week or two.

But this raises a very interesting question. All of these good arguments for full integration and no key in can also be applied in the case of servers (as in customer servers, not computer servers). Servers can make entry mistakes and servers cost “some” money (but not much). So do you see it all as heading towards customer kiosk ordering when dining in or ordering takeout while on the premises? It’s the same idea. No mistakes possible because the customer entered it all for themselves. The server, if there even is one, just delivers the food and drinks. Even your front counter people would not take any orders at all. They would just pass the food out and it would already be paid for.

There is a popular convenience store chain that has a lot more than most convenience stores. It’s called WaWa. That’s exactly what they do. You build you own custom sandwiches, soups, etc…right from the kiosk and the person who makes it simply hands it to you when done. If you don’t pay with your card, then you get a ticket and pay at the register. It’s not bad at all. Perhaps a little impersonal, but they are only a convenience store anyway, so nobody really expects the personal touch anyway.

 

[Daddio]

Do you find that there are a lot of mistakes when keying in phone orders? Does that cause a lot of problems?

Phone mistakes are caught when you repeat the order back to the customer. How do you repeat an order back to a fax or printer? I know from experience that when I have read something wrong I will likely read it wrong every time I read it.

 

[PizzaSoft]

Phone mistakes are caught when you repeat the order back to the customer. How do you repeat an order back to a fax or printer? I know from experience that when I have read something wrong I will likely read it wrong every time I read it.

So people are more likely to read something wrong than hear something wrong? That’s interesting. I didn’t think of that. I thought that reading it back to the customer is done in case something was heard wrong. But isn’t that the same as simply being careful enough to take a double look at the printed order? Maybe not. But at that point, the order is what it is because the customer entered it. Maybe repeating it back to the customer will also catch the customer’s own mistakes? That’s a possible benefit. But as far as the customer themselves placing the order, there is no argument about what the customer said because it’s all in writing and all of their own doing. So it’s a mixed bag between phone orders and non integrated online orders. Mistakes or disagreements are possible in both situations, but this isn’t any new reality that hasn’t existed since the beginning of phone ordering, and restaurants seem to get by just fine with a low error rate. And in the case of the online order, there is definitive proof as to what the customer actually said they want whereas the phone can’t offer that.

 

[Daddio]

So people are more likely to read something wrong than hear something wrong? That’s interesting. I didn’t think of that. I thought that reading it back to the customer is done in case something was heard wrong. But isn’t that the same as simply being careful enough to take a double look at the printed order? Maybe not. But at that point, the order is what it is because the customer entered it. Maybe repeating it back to the customer will also catch the customer’s own mistakes? That’s a possible benefit. But as far as the customer themselves placing the order, there is no argument about what the customer said because it’s all in writing and all of their own doing. So it’s a mixed bag between phone orders and non integrated online orders. Mistakes or disagreements are possible in both situations, but this isn’t any new reality that hasn’t existed since the beginning of phone ordering, and restaurants seem to get by just fine with a low error rate. And in the case of the online order, there is definitive proof as to what the customer actually said they want whereas the phone can’t offer that.

If you repeat the order to to the customer on the phone, you have an instant feed back at to whether the order is correct and if an error has occurred be it the customers or the shops. That feedback cannot happen when the order is placed online. In an integrated system it is all on the customer if they made the error. In a system where an employee has to transcribe the order to the POS an error in transcription is very conceivable and is all on the shop. A good example of this has happened in my shop and prompted a change in how the items are printed on our prep tickets. At a quick glance during a busy time it was easy to mistake Ham and Pepperoni for Ham and Pineapple. Both start with a P and are about the same length. To avoid the mistake I changed the system to Pepperoni and Ham and Ham and Pineapple. This is just one of many mistakes that could happen during transcription that could make for an unhappy customer.

 

[bodegahwy]

Do you find that there are a lot of mistakes when keying in phone orders? Does that cause a lot of problems?

No and No.

 

[Registered_Guest]

How long would it take someone to key in an online order if you have a POS and they are pressing buttons rather than typing? I’m not talking about waiting for the customer to decide as with phone calls, I mean you could enter right away without any pauses. Would it really take someone more than 15 seconds to key in two pizzas with specialty toppings, one dinner and some beverages? I remember when I when I was a waiter, it didn’t take me long at all to do an entire table’s order. I could do a party of 4-6 in about 20 seconds. And as far as accuracy goes, well…that was my job. If I screwed up, it meant no tippy and sour customer. So I tried not to screw up and I paid attention. Most servers can run through their POS in their sleep after a week or two.

How many waiters are entering specific customer information like names and addresses? And payment information?

And actually, I think it is easier to enter and order listening to the customer vs. reading it from a piece of paper. When I’m listening I can just focus on the screen. When entering it from a piece of paper, I have to keep looking back and forth.

 

[Registered_Guest]

But at that point, the order is what it is because the customer entered it. Maybe repeating it back to the customer will also catch the customer’s own mistakes? That’s a possible benefit. But as far as the customer themselves placing the order, there is no argument about what the customer said because it’s all in writing and all of their own doing. So it’s a mixed bag between phone orders and non integrated online orders. Mistakes or disagreements are possible in both situations, but this isn’t any new reality that hasn’t existed since the beginning of phone ordering, and restaurants seem to get by just fine with a low error rate. And in the case of the online order, there is definitive proof as to what the customer actually said they want whereas the phone can’t offer that.

Actually, many phones can offer that - we record all of our calls. But I think you point is moot because no one if going to use that “proof” anyway.

 

[Georgiascp]

@PizzaSoft I don’t think you quite understand how things go down in a pizza shop during peak hours where performance efficiency and accuracy count the most. I would say to you take your software go sit in an average busy pizza shop and enter all these online orders you get through your pizza app while trying to deal with ringing phones and customers walking in trying to order pizza and pick up pizza. Our online order system is currently like yours we receive it through email it automatically prints on our in store printer we then enter the order into our POS. I can tell you this it has become a disaster as we are now receiving a lot of orders online. We will have fully integrated online ordering by the end of this month. My cost is going to be 600 bucks to fully integrate and myself and my staff cannot wait till this happens. Let me explain to you the headaches that come along with this mistakes galore when transferring over the order, missed orders because staff got interrupted while trying to enter the order and forgot to finish, late orders due to too much going on in the shop that can’t be put on hold like entering an online order can and the list goes on especially the unhappy customers due to this downfalls. What my hope is in accomplishing the integration is focusing more time on things that matter like customer service and shop efficiency. Taking orders is a big waste of labor time. With full integration my next focus would be to push online ordering and receiving as many orders in that matter as possible without having to hire labor to do so. Taking orders over the phone is nothing like re-imputing orders through email etc. When taking an order over the phone you are entering what the customer is ordering exactly with 100% focused attention and any mistakes in communication get fixed when confirming the order with the customer.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[PizzaSoft]

@PizzaSoft I don’t think you quite understand how things go down in a pizza shop during peak hours where performance efficiency and accuracy count the most. I would say to you take your software go sit in an average busy pizza shop and enter all these online orders you get through your pizza app while trying to deal with ringing phones and customers walking in trying to order pizza and pick up pizza. Our online order system is currently like yours we receive it through email it automatically prints on our in store printer we then enter the order into our POS. I can tell you this it has become a disaster as we are now receiving a lot of orders online. We will have fully integrated online ordering by the end of this month. My cost is going to be 600 bucks to fully integrate and myself and my staff cannot wait till this happens. Let me explain to you the headaches that come along with this mistakes galore when transferring over the order, missed orders because staff got interrupted while trying to enter the order and forgot to finish, late orders due to too much going on in the shop that can’t be put on hold like entering an online order can and the list goes on especially the unhappy customers due to this downfalls. What my hope is in accomplishing the integration is focusing more time on things that matter like customer service and shop efficiency. Taking orders is a big waste of labor time. With full integration my next focus would be to push online ordering and receiving as many orders in that matter as possible without having to hire labor to do so. Taking orders over the phone is nothing like re-imputing orders through email etc. When taking an order over the phone you are entering what the customer is ordering exactly with 100% focused attention and any mistakes in communication get fixed when confirming the order with the customer.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

All very true stuff and very useful comments. Like I have said previously in a few places, there is no better solution than a fully integrated one, if one has the money and is willing to take the time and effort for re-training. You can’t beat it. I completely understand that 12 or even 20 orders could possibly come in in one minute. Same thing with phone calls, except that someone simply can’t receive that many that quickly. But I know a few owners who freak at the thought that a lot of customers could be getting lost via busy signals, so they CAN receive that many. If they have to, they stick 5 people on 5 phones. I know someone who does that. Costs a lot, but rarely a busy signal. I guess it all depends on the specific situation and owner. But then there’s the problem of how to get all that food out on a timely basis, so some people decide that the extra business is not worth it if they can’t handle it in a way that meets their quality standards. I would probably do the same thing. If I couldn’t do it right at that particular time, I don’t want the order. I’m better off in the long run in terms of reputation, image etc… But one person here claimed that he can get between 40-80 deliveries per hour on a busy night and he has anywhere between 10-20 drivers. I had a lot of doubts as to how someone could get that much food out the door in only one location, and he basically said, you learn how to do it if that’s what it takes. Those numbers floored me.

As far as the benefit of getting it right by repeating the order to them to save mistakes not only by the order taker, but by the customer themselves where they thought they said one thing, but they really said something else, that is very true. But that is kind of separate from online ordering because even if it is integrated, there’s nothing you can do to confirm it like you can with the phone. But, at least you have a record of what they actually did order as opposed to what they “thought” they said. So it kind of swings both ways. Interesting points. Thanks.

 

[PizzaSoft]

If you repeat the order to to the customer on the phone, you have an instant feed back at to whether the order is correct and if an error has occurred be it the customers or the shops. That feedback cannot happen when the order is placed online. In an integrated system it is all on the customer if they made the error. In a system where an employee has to transcribe the order to the POS an error in transcription is very conceivable and is all on the shop. A good example of this has happened in my shop and prompted a change in how the items are printed on our prep tickets. At a quick glance during a busy time it was easy to mistake Ham and Pepperoni for Ham and Pineapple. Both start with a P and are about the same length. To avoid the mistake I changed the system to Pepperoni and Ham and Ham and Pineapple. This is just one of many mistakes that could happen during transcription that could make for an unhappy customer.

Very interesting. Thanks. I guess they don’t read Pineapple as Pepperoni on the POS because the text and/or buttons are larger? I could see where hearing is better than reading in that case, because there is no way to hear pepperoni when it was pineapple. And as I have said many times, there’s no doubt that the best way to handle all of this is through an integrated POS. But it must be expensive. It’s the right way to go, and yet so many shops seem to be using non integrated online ordering services. Why? Is the POS upgrade or change or buying a new one too painful for them? I really don’t know, I just know they aren’t running out and getting fully integrated systems, when in the long run, they would probably be better off.

If someone hired me as a tech consultant and I went through everything the restaurant does, there is no doubt that this is what I would recommend. And then some people would pass out at the cost, some would grin and bear it, and others would try to find cheap, but non comprehensive and therefore questionable alternatives and then say “hah hah, we don’t need your overpriced system” (but they eventually will).

But suppose you’re a small shop or you’re starting out, and you just can’t put out 15-20,000 for a good comprehensive system, and then X amount per month on top of it. What do you do? Do you miss out on online ordering opportunities because you can’t shell out 15-20,000 upfront or do you use a workaround that “technically” works (with gaps in it) and gets you more orders?

 

[system]

But one person here claimed that he can get between 40-80 deliveries per hour on a busy night and he has anywhere between 10-20 drivers. I had a lot of doubts as to how someone could get that much food out the door in only one location, and he basically said, you learn how to do it if that’s what it takes. Those numbers floored me.

This just goes to show you don’t know and are not part of the industry. With only 2 ovens and a 9 minute cook time you can pull a pizza every 30 seconds. If you have a shorter cook time and another oven …Get the Picture?

 

[PizzaSoft]

Actually, many phones can offer that - we record all of our calls. But I think you point is moot because no one if going to use that “proof” anyway.

That’s probably true. I don’t know whether that proof would be used or not in either case. That would be up to the owner himself how he wants to handle that situation. My feelings are that “proving” a customer is wrong is just going to make you lose them, now and in the future. But that’s just standard, general “marketing” thinking, not necessarily pizzeria thinking. There might be shop owners who would disagree and say “no, I’m not making you another order or changing it, you screwed up, and you have to pay, and here’s my proof that you screwed up”. If it happens too much, then “the customer is always right” starts to apply less and less.

 

[PizzaSoft]

This just goes to show you don’t know and are not part of the industry. With only 2 ovens and a 9 minute cook time you can pull a pizza every 30 seconds. If you have a shorter cook time and another oven …Get the Picture?

Thanks for the clarification. I never said I was part of the industry. I said in my very first post on this forum that I am a software developer who used to work in the restaurant industry, but not the pizzeria business specifically. I am here to learn things. I might answer back sometimes to say “what if this or that?”, but that’s more for clarification and confirmation rather than disagreement. But I make no claims that I know the business, and that’s why I come on places like this, to learn. I have some ideas geared towards pizzerias, but I would never dare do it until I first talk to people in the industry and listen to them. It would be stupid to make something, spend all that time and money, and THEN get opinions from people in the business. And based on general opinions here, at least, any non integrated online ordering ideas, or any delivery management ideas are just a non starter. Online ordering has to be integrated, and delivery management and customer notifications are nothing but an extra hassle and aren’t even worth it for free. Customer convenience? Well, that seems a little more of an afterthought here as far as I can see, as long as a good product arrives in a timely fashion. The thinking is far more operations centered rather than customer centered. That’s not a bad thing, it is what it is. But I don’t think there is any place for the kind of ideas I am thinking about in the pizza business. They are far more for the customer’s benefit, than the pizzeria’s. So if the customer wants it, THEY should pay. But we both know the customer has the expectation of receiving benefits that the seller provides for nothing. They see themselves as the king, and whoever makes their life better or easier the most wins their money.

 

[system]

So if the customer wants it, THEY should pay.

That is exactly the way EVERY business works in one way or another. Prices are adjusted to reflect the added services. Take credit card fees for example. Just raise the price by 3% to cover it and you get a bonus if you are paid cash.

 

[Swalloo]

And based on general opinions here, at least, any non integrated online ordering ideas, or any delivery management ideas are just a non starter. Online ordering has to be integrated, and delivery management and customer notifications are nothing but an extra hassle and aren’t even worth it for free.

Hi Pizzasoft, from the perspective of the most active participants here, the statement above is very true. From what I have seen, there is also a very large number of smaller, independent pizza shops that use online ordering services that do not integrate with their POS systems. Many use more than one service and receive those orders through fax or standalone tablets, or both! Visit a few of your neighborhood pizzerias and have a look at what they are doing.

 

[PizzaSoft]

That is exactly the way EVERY business works in one way or another. Prices are adjusted to reflect the added services. Take credit card fees for example. Just raise the price by 3% to cover it and you get a bonus if you are paid cash.

Some businesses go the extra tiny mile for free in order to get the extra business because they are always looking for it. A lot don’t. It’s a choice. But when you’re already doing “enough” business to where customers are now seen as a necessary “hassle”, then that’s different. The more customers someone gets, the less they are appreciated. That’s just natural I suppose. Worked at an unbelievable busy nightclub/bar. Made tons of money but did it all because of volume and avg tip was a quarter per beer. But it was a grinding job and by the end of the summer, I wished the customers would just go away and I really didn’t feel like serving them anymore. I almost felt like they were privileged to be served or that I was doing them some sort of favor. But that was seasonal, and by December, I would have killed for a few weeks back behind that bar, even if it was just weekends. It’s just the way it goes, human nature.

But when you’re a big chain like Dominoes, Papa Johns etc…, and you have marketing professionals working for you and money to spend, you are always looking for any little advantage or way to impress the customer better than your stiff competition. The whole thinking is different. Fortunately for real, independent pizzerias, the big chains can’t make a pizza like they do, and the pizza quality itself will always be important.

 

[PizzaSoft]

Hi Pizzasoft, from the perspective of the most active participants here, the statement above is very true. From what I have seen, there is also a very large number of smaller, independent pizza shops that use online ordering services that do not integrate with their POS systems. Many use more than one service and receive those orders through fax or standalone tablets, or both! Visit a few of your neighborhood pizzerias and have a look at what they are doing.

When I talked about a delivery management and customer notification ideas, and mentioned the big chains are working on some of these ideas, the response was that if it ever got popular with customers and they demanded it, then anybody who has a decent POS company will get an upgrade from them so that online orders pop up into their system already added. If that’s true, then why do so many people still not have upgraded POS systems that have integrated online ordering? I don’t see their POS companies racing around to integrate it for their customers, or maybe they want too much. I don’t know. I know 5 pizza places in my area right off the top of my head and they ALL use third party online ordering and I can’t remember noticing anybody who has online ordering integrated. So I guess not all pizzerias have the amount of money to put into POS purchases that most who participate here do.

And, just like you said, if you refuse to use anything third party, you cut yourself out of conglomerate online ordering directories (which are popular with people) because you refuse to receive the order unless it pops into your POS. It looks like a lot here have a lot more money and business than the pizzerias you are thinking of. Simply put, they don’t really need the business, and good for them to succeed so well. They must have awesome pizza.

If the POS companies were smart, they would not only have online ordering integrated, but they would open up their API to an extent so that the restaurant can have directory based orders instantly pop up on the screen. But they aren’t going to do that. They will make it themselves, get the customer “pregnant” with it and charge them a ton because the customer is basically trapped at that point and stuck with it. And there are no third party add on capabilities so that the customer can easily scale or adjust or add capabilities. If they want that, they have to wait for the POS company to make it themselves so that the POS companies get all of the money. It’s a huge game. I can’t blame them. That’s business.

Too much for me to do a POS, but if I did, I would offer a limited web service so that restaurants can mix and match add ons, whether they be mine, or a third party’s. Restaurant directories will always be a reality. The classic “solitary” software application is slowly going away. It’s happening all over the place.

 

[system]

Some businesses go the extra tiny mile for free in order to get the extra business because they are always looking for it.

Sorry to burst your bubble but nothing is ever free. The cost is just hidden in the price.

Once again you have proven you will put forth a long winded, illogical argument to show the members of the forum you don’t know the first thing about this industry. Being a waiter and bartender does not give you the working knowledge of this industry to give a seasoned owner advice on where the money comes from to pay for the FREE service you suggest is necessary to keep customers happy.

In your response to Swalloo you go straight into bashing the very group of people you are trying to win as customers. This leads me to believe you are not real good at what you are trying to propose we are not good at which is knowing what the customers want.

I doubt at this point you would be able to work with most participants on this forum because of your argumentative approach and need to have the last word. Those are definitely deal breaking characteristics for me.

One last thing:

PizzaSoft:

I won’t be posting in this thread or anywhere here anymore, as obviously my posts and topics don’t belong here and I understand that.