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Pizza Oven - Trying to simulate Papa Johns

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PizzaGuy99:
George, is it not true that when the ovens are rebuilt they are brought up to the newest specifications. Especially since the originally parts were discontinued or not up to current codes. This meaning that if the oven was designed with on/off solenoid valves they could be modified to modulating valves. Also if the proper company is doing the rebuilding any metal “fatigued” parts are replaced with new and usually thicker metal for the end-user?
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Isn’t all of this the definition of rebuilding to new specifications? This post confuses me a lot.
 
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No, it really depends on the rebuilder/refurbisher. Some represent that they replace only worn or non-functioning parts and it works. Some represent that they update to current specifications.

The refurbishing market is wide open, this is why it is so important to work off of references. Find a company that produces quality work and stands behind their work(warranty).

Look at it from a car perspective:

1955 Corvette rebuilt:
brakes(standard - ABS)
engine(carburated - Fuel Injected)
tires(Bias - Radials)

Which way would you want the car rebuilt; as a daily driver(newest specs), show model(original specs), wholesaler(just enough to get the most money for resale).

I hope this answers your question.
 
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I am sorry; no, it doesn’t much at all. The post I responded to says that a manufacturer replacing out of date or discontinued parts with new generation of parts does not constitute bringing up to newest specifications.

Covette, VW Beetle or goat cart . . . your analogy doesn’t explain the inconsistency in your post. I am smart enough to figure out parts replacement with updating to specs. I just cannot find the point you were making . . . I am often thick, so it could be my reading and not understanding.
 
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Sorry guys I got a bit behind on this posting.

As regards rebuilt ovens:

First I quote Tom Lehmann from an earlier post “The new, XLT as well as the other new, generation air impingement ovens that I referred to are totally different from earlier ovens of the same design. These ovens have modified burners, controls, baffling/air flow characteristics to make them more efficient and cheaper to operate.” End of quote.

You cannot rebuild an old model oven to the standards of operation of the newest models.

Middleby offers ovens rebuilt by a factory authorized re builder using factory authorized parts. No doubt these are as close to possible to what they were originally but that does not make them the equivalent of the newer models.

The above ovens sell for more than comparable XLT ovens and do not have the 2 year warranty. They are still twenty five year old technology and design. They are still very time consuming to clean They still operate .at 220 volt rather than 110 volts which costs the operator about $700.00 per deck more per year to operate. Parts for these ovens are three times more costly than parts for XLT ovens

There are many ovens offered as rebuilt, I would consider any ovens with a 55 in bake chamber and 32 in wide belt offered as rebuilt for less than $19,000.00 for a double deck as not having been completely rebuilt.

It appears one mans rebuilt is another mans wipe down with a damp rag. You only get what you pay for.

Just my opinion others may think differently.

George Mills
 
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George,

Correct me if I am wrong. Are you telling me that the new XLT’s have some sort of “state of the art” gas train system? And that this new gas train system is proprietary only to XLT?

I am also to believe that by running 110 Volt instead of 208-240 Volt, I can save money?
Wattage is Wattage; you are either dividing it by 110-120V or 208-240V leaving the amperage as the divider.

The main advantage is how many motors you must run and the size of the chamber for circulatory air flow

PS360 - 208-240V at 8 Amps=1920Watts per hour (2 Blower fans at 1550 C.F.M. total)
XLT3255 120V at 6 Amps= 720 Watts per hour (1 Blower fan at ? C.F.M.)
Lincoln 1450 120V at 7 Amps= 840 Watts per hour (1 Blower fan at ? C.F.M.)
Pro Series PS3255 120V at 14 Amps=1680 per hour (2 Blower fans at 3100 C.F.M total)

The true cooking comes from the circulator air, am I correct? This is how Turbo Chef achieves their “super quick” cooking. The impingement finger configuration has not changed over the years.
 
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Pizza Guy asks: Correct me if I am wrong. Are you telling me that the new XLT’s have some sort of “state of the art” gas train system? And that this new gas train system is proprietary only to XLT?

Gm please note the statement made by Tom and quoted by me: (First I quote Tom Lehmann from an earlier post “The new, XLT as well as the other new, generation air impingement ovens that I referred to are totally different from earlier ovens of the same design. These ovens have modified burners, controls, baffling/air flow characteristics to make them more efficient and cheaper to operate.”) End of quote.

GM;The gas burners on older ovens only utilized (burned) 80 % of the gas consumed the newer modern ovens burn 98% of the gas. Older ovens had exhaust(flue) pipes and a substantial amount of heat was lost without doing any baking, The modulating gas valves on newer ovens give a more even and more efficient burn of the gas and small variation in Temperature. In discussions of the above I have indicated the above as a difference in the newer oven models as to the older oven models.

GM: No the above is not unique unto XLT Many of the latest model ovens employ the system. As noted in my quote of Tom.

Pizza guy asks: I am also to believe that by running 110 Volt instead of 208-240 Volt, I can save money?

GM: As to electrical, you are BILLED FOR WATTS not volts or amps. Your chart shows the difference in watts, that is the difference in cost of operation. Lower watts = lower cost.

Pizza guy asks: The true cooking comes from the circulator air, am I correct? This is how Turbo Chef achieves their “super quick” cooking. The impingement finger configuration has not changed over the years.

GM: There are two factors volume of air circulated and temperature of that air. There have been some changes in the basic air impingement factor it self. The fingers used now are vastly different from those used in early versions. Some changes in the arrangement of the air holes have also been recently made.

GM: As to fast baking, I again defer to the baking expert Tom Lehmann. Quote “Here are a few things to keep in mind when looking at ovens. The longer a pizza bakes (within reason) the more flavor it develops”

George Mills
 
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As I see it right now, the BOFI, PESI, M-M WOW, and FastBake are all about side by side when it comes to baking performance. Yes, the Lincoln, FastBake does utilize the newest technologies. With the correct finger configuration you should be able to get the same bake from any of these ovens. To this point, I’ve had the opportunity to work with all but the M-M WOW, and I can say that I’ve been able to get a great bake on both thin and thick crust pizzas, and a lot of other products too, such as calzones, dessert pizzas, and breadsticks. All of these ovens will give you an honest 5-minute pizza, and they’re gas mizers too. If you’re looking to buy one, give a lot of consideration to a split conveyor as it adds a lot of flexability to the oven with regard to baking times, and Be sure to have the oven set up by the manufacturer to bake YOUR pizzas.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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