Wife is demanding deck ovens, any suggestions

@George

Are you a rep or dealer?

If our experience with a conveyor has been bad because Q-matic is not a quality oven, which oven would you suggest for our type of operation?

We were looking to replace our double stack Q-Matic at one of our stores with a Rotoflex (or the like) but after your post we are very interested in exploring the possibility of a “quality” conveyor.

Heck, if its that much of a difference I can see retrofitting some of the stores with the rotating decks as well.
 
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intelligent variable speed onveyor oven

some “tongue-in cheek” here, but am am interested in the conveyor oven that will vary the speed/temperature/intervals to bake a pizza according to it’s thickness and they will all come out “perfect” everytime !

I have a Q-Matic 36W conveyor and am happy with it. Like I think the rest of them, it is not intelligent, in other words, it has the profile I give it and will not change it to suit a different pizza thickness going through.

I understand there are some with split belts with different speeds. Good idea.

I am learning to keep my pizzas in the same profile range.

good topic, appreciate the input,
Otis
 
Statement:If our experience with a conveyor has been bad because Q-Matic is not a quality oven, which oven would you suggest for our type of operation?

Response: My statement was that the Q-Matic is not “a quality air impingement oven”. The technology used is substantially different.

It is the air flowing around the pizzas in an air impingement oven that is so important. When any item is in an environment that is not at the same temperature as the item, then that item has a layer of air surrounding it. That layer of air is about he same temperature as the item, be it cold or warm.

Example I think everyone has heard the term wind chill factor. That is, on a cool day, a person can be fairly comfortable until a stiff breeze comes along and blows away the layer of warm air surrounding the body.

In an air impingement oven The layer of cold air surrounding the pizza and every individual topping is blown away. That is why air impingement ovens are so superior to other methods of baking.

With deck ovens, the Q-Matic and other ovens that are not equipped to blow away that cold layer, if pizzas are placed close together the cold layers of air surrounding them overlap each other, greatly lowering the temperature in the overlapped area. Those overlaped areas do not bake as well as the area not subject to the overlapping. That results in uneven baking and poor results.

Statement: We were looking to replace our double stack Q-Matic at one of our stores with a Rotoflex (or the like) but after your post we are very interested in exploring the possibility of a “quality” conveyor.

Response If you purchase an XLT oven by BOFI and they have not, within 90 days, proven to you that they can produce your pizzas the way you want them, they will take the ovens back and refund your money. I have never heard of an XLT being returned.

George Mills
 
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Re: intelligent variable speed onveyor oven

Hi Otis
Statement Some “tongue-in cheek” here, but am interested in the conveyor oven that will vary the speed/temperature/intervals to bake a pizza according to it’s thickness and they will all come out “perfect” everytime !

The XLT oven, the Middleby and many other conveyor ovens can be equipped with split belts. That gives the operator two options as to the bake time of different products. A second deck can be set at a different temperature and if equipped with a split belt gives the operator 4 options.

I would point out that the air impingement ovens can bake many more divergent pizzas at the same time and temperature then non air impingement can affording the opportunity to promote widely divergent products.

It is the fact that the air impingement type ovens force the heated air in and around the various toppings and penetrate thicker crusts that allows wide divergences of product and toppings to be baked at the same time and temperatures.
George Mills
 
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Otis Gunn:
Do not listen to us !.. too seriously anyway. An oven is only partially an intellectual decision.

I have and use both, love them both for the same and different reasons.
I recomend going to a pizza convention, see them all, check them all out, make up your own mind. they will be glad for you to test their ovens
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My decision to stick to deck ovens is the particular finish product we get with our dough/sauce/cheese combination. If we change the dough, then I’ll revisit the ovens. We also like the visual impact of having our guys manning a deck oven and handling the pizzas in front of the customers. that charmjust doesn’t translate to the conveyor oven experience. So, for our shop, there is at least one other factor besides energy efficiency, volume of pizza, and amount of hot air blown around the pizzas in the oven.

The statement Otis made above is pretty true. The intellectual should very much be a part of the decision, but the intagnibles will always enter in, like notalgia for one’s previous pizza employment life, or memories of a childhood pizzeria, or such like that. Whatever the variables, find one that you can afford, fits your skills and volume levels, and makes you feel like a professional pizza cooker.
 
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Wow! Great information all around. I guess this proves we need to take some serious time and investigate all the options before we make a final decision.

I have been using all the post to convince the wife we need to consider all the options to determine what will work the best for us and the pizza experience we want to provide.

Luckily we won’t have the shop open until Oct./Nov. I am sure you have all been in this position before. You just want to get it right the first time (if possible).
 
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I believe that your dough recipe will have different end results in different style ovens. I have used a convection oven and a lincoln impinger conveyor oven with no difference in the finished product at all. A few summers ago I had a booth at a concert event and had to rent an oven and the only thing available for renting that I could find was a deck oven. I used my same dough recipe and the pizzas weren’t very good. They tasted like something you would get from a gas station. The crust was nothing like it usually is when I cook my pizzas in my conveyor ovens. So from my personal experience I have found that my dough recipe baked differently in each oven. My advice would be to definately test out different ovens with your actual dough recipe and then make a decision based on the finished product. As you can see from some of the other posts, some people absolutely love deck ovens but from experience my dough recipe just wasn’t right for a deck. So definately make sure you test a various ovens before making your decisions. Good luck!
 
“pizzapirate” said:
@George

Are you a rep or dealer?

XLT? 😉 it doesn’t matter you bring a wealth of information to educate us pizza guys but I am betting you aren’t one of us
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Roger:
I believe that your dough recipe will have different end results in different style ovens. I have used a convection oven and a lincoln impinger conveyor oven with no difference in the finished product at all. A few summers ago I had a booth at a concert event and had to rent an oven and the only thing available for renting that I could find was a deck oven. I used my same dough recipe and the pizzas weren’t very good. They tasted like something you would get from a gas station. The crust was nothing like it usually is when I cook my pizzas in my conveyor ovens. So from my personal experience I have found that my dough recipe baked differently in each oven. My advice would be to definately test out different ovens with your actual dough recipe and then make a decision based on the finished product. As you can see from some of the other posts, some people absolutely love deck ovens but from experience my dough recipe just wasn’t right for a deck. So definately make sure you test a various ovens before making your decisions. Good luck!
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Great insight, thanks. Makes a lot of sense you would get different results. I wish I could have made it to the show in Las Vegas as it would have cleared up most of these questions, but the timing was not good.
 
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pizzapirate:
@George

Are you a rep or dealer?
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See his profile. Web page is an equipment sales business. Definitely a different perspective . . . and definitely a useful perspective to hear.

It is good to know from whence the ideas and insights come, though 😉
 
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@George

Are you a rep or dealer?

Response; I am a dealer. I try to not post in a selling mode as this forum is not for that purpose.
I started in this field in 1953 so I have been around for some time. I am trying to be helpful to the industry.

George Mills
 
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Pazzo di Pizza:
The one thing I like about the conveyors is you “know” the amount of time it will take to cook the pizza. I seem to recall on the deck ovens, of course this is a 20 year old memory, it would take around 15-20 minutes to cook a pizza. Shorter amount time when not busy so the oven did not have to recover as much.
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5-7 minutes, depending on the toppings.
 
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Pazzo di Pizza wrote:
The one thing I like about the conveyors is you “know” the amount of time it will take to cook the pizza. I seem to recall on the deck ovens, of course this is a 20 year old memory, it would take around 15-20 minutes to cook a pizza. Shorter amount time when not busy so the oven did not have to recover as much.

russ cox reply 5-7 minutes, depending on the toppings.

I think you are both correct. If a deck oven is given time to recover between pizzas the bake time could be 5-7 minutes for a regular ( not deep dish ) pizza but if you are trying to slam through a lot of pizzas and do not allow time for recovery the heat in the oven can be pulled down to where it does take 15 or 20 minutes to bake a pizza.

And Pazzo is also correct in stating that once the production time is set in an air impingment type oven every pizza is baked for the same ammount of time. The ammount of toppings generally does not make a differance in the impingment type oven with minor exceptions for excessively topped pizzas re double everything.

George Mills
 
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Roger:
I believe that your dough recipe will have different end results in different style ovens. I have used a convection oven and a lincoln impinger conveyor oven with no difference in the finished product at all. A few summers ago I had a booth at a concert event and had to rent an oven and the only thing available for renting that I could find was a deck oven. I used my same dough recipe and the pizzas weren’t very good. They tasted like something you would get from a gas station. The crust was nothing like it usually is when I cook my pizzas in my conveyor ovens. So from my personal experience I have found that my dough recipe baked differently in each oven. My advice would be to definately test out different ovens with your actual dough recipe and then make a decision based on the finished product. As you can see from some of the other posts, some people absolutely love deck ovens but from experience my dough recipe just wasn’t right for a deck. So definately make sure you test a various ovens before making your decisions. Good luck!
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Code: 
       from my limited experience, any oven can be profiled(time, temperature, ranges, intervals, baking platforms, ie disk, screens, etc) to bake any dough recipe....it takes time and diligence......
so you can use any oven with any dough recipe,
Otis
 
dude. go with the cadillac of ovens… bakers pride y602. i have this double stack deck, we did 1.6 million last year, open 5 days.

take my word for it, there are lots of people out there telling you all kinds of craziness. there is no way in the world conveyer oven pie can stack up to decks. your wife, my friend, is right as rain.
 
Just my 2 cents on ovens based on experience - please don’t take it personal.

No matter what any oven salesman or pizza operator will tell you, you absolutely cannot get the same crust from an impingement oven that you get with a deck oven. The crispy/crunchy deck oven texture is just not possible with impingement. Now that doesn’t mean these ovens are not good ovens or that you can’t make a good pizza with them, it’s just that they produce a different kind of pizza: more chewy than crunchy.

Here’s a summary of what I’ve learned about ovens:

Impingement: Bakes the most consistent, easiest to operate, good to very good crust, notch below great because you cannot get the deck crunch. Great for high volume shops.

Q-matic: Not quite as consistent as impingement but not bad. Takes a lot of experience with these to get the adjustments just right for your dough. Need to bake in anondized pans and we had to try several types to find the right ones for our dough. Dough needs to be on the dry side otherwise you will end up with soggy pizza. Does not compensate very well for dough that is a little off. Very quiet, energy efficient and low maintenance. All in all it is a great compromise between a deck and conveyor. Overall if you got the right pans, your dough is on and the oven is properly tuned it makes a great pizza that rivals a deck and even brick oven but with better consistency. I am a believer in these ovens since they are good for high volume and plan to stay with them.

Picard deck-conveyor. These aren’t very common from what I’ve heard. Made in Canada and my brother’s shop just bought one. Absolutely cooks like a deck because it is a deck with the convenience and consistency of a conveyor. I recommend baking right on the stone with parchment paper underneath. It may be the best oven you can buy but it is pricey: 30-35K I think is what he paid.

Standard deck: Never owned one but worked with one long ago. Needs to be operated by an experience pizza maker otherwise will have consistency problems. Bakes the classic pie if done right.
 
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Deck ovens it is! We have spent spring break in Lincoln City, Oregon (home town) and have had pizza 3 times in the last 4 days. All pizzas baked in Blodgett ovens. Love that crunch on the bottom and soft chewy center.

The chewy crust as described above is what we want to avoid and not serve as most of the other places in Poulsbo already are doing a good job on this type of pizza

Now to choose the deck oven to go with. Thanks for all the replies. It really surprised me we did over 4 pages worth of postings. Good info along the way.
 
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Not to beat a dead horse but:

In hundreds of demonstrations, starting back when everyone had deck ovens we never failed to duplicate the bake of the pizza to the complete satisfaction of the operator. And the newest air impingement ovens are a vast improvement over those being installed three or four years ago.

Thousands of pizza operators switched to quality air impingement ovens.

I do not believe all those operators switched ovens thinking they would be baking a pizza of lesser quality. Every place,that I know of, that switched to quality air impingement ovens sales went up. Apparently their customers did not think the pizzas were of lesser quality.

If the operator loves it because,no more burnt pizzas, no more under baked pizzas, virtual elimination of orders for well done pizzas, no need for highly trained, skill full and highly paid oven tenders and the customers love the pizza and sales climb is that not the objective?

George Mills
 
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