Will people pay for a better pizza

[Easygoer13]

pizzapirate:

Why do you want a small place with minimal seating? If its because you just don’t want to have to deal with dining that is a different issue. You don’t want the additional overhead or build-out costs?

I’d agree you can still make a got of it, but these are tough times. Restaurants are tough in any time. If I’m going to open a new place, I’m going to have dining, delivery and take-out. Why put a limit on revenue streams?

I don’t have the experience that most here do…but something that is more manageable with a smaller staff…less rent…etc…and if I am marketing this as such…than why is it hard…I am not trying to be a full service restaurant…I grew up with local pizza shops that just made good pizza…as adult few people I know go out for pizza but most pick it up to take home…again…I may not be seeing the big picture…one of the food reps saw the place today and commented that he thought we would quickly out grow it and look to take space from adjoinging spaces and the location and looks of the place exceeded what he thought it would be as his has been a counselor to me since I had the desire to open…

 

[Easygoer13]

tdeane:

My friend at pizzamaking.com, Peter directed me to your thread. I would say, make the best pizza you possibly can and people will come. At my place I use the freshest mozzarella I can, usually within a few days of being made and sometimes the same day. I would make it myself, but it is only my wife and I doing everything so it is not possible now. I have my pepperoni and chorizo made for me by a great local sausage maker and I slice them both by hand. I make my own Italian sausage which I grind my own meat for. I make my own dough with a sourdough culture and locally milled flour. I make my own sauce with Stanislaus tomatoes. I use high quality olive oil and fresh basil. This is the best I can do right now but I will continue to try and improve and use even better products when I can. I hope to eventually cure my own meats and make my own cheese and grow my own herbs and vegetables.
Never serve anything you wouldn’t be happy to pay for! That is my motto.

sounds like you have a real passion for what you are doing…how are you finding your business to be?..do your customers have a appreciation for what you are making…I appreciate your efforts…they are beyond what my plan is…

 

[tdeane]

Customers seem to love it and we have probably 95% return customers. Since the last article about us, we have sold out of dough every day and can barely keep up with the demand.

 

[steveo922]

I don’t know if it was said in this thread or not (too lazy to read it all over again) but the poster who said it is right. People eat with their eyes. My motto is “a good looking pizza usually tastes good”. And I think its true. If you made 2 of the same exact pizzas, but took the extra minute to make one look pretty, it will ‘taste’ better than the one that was sloppily put together. I would say 99% of the pizzas that I pull out of the oven, are usually complimented by me saying “wow, that is one sexay looking pizza!”

My brother always laughs at me when I say it lol.

 

[Easygoer13]

Man you are so right…I want people eyes to light up when they see their pizza…I know mine do…when anything I buy looks good…

 

[NicksPizza]

If I may be so bold to suggest this . . . . if your pizza meets whatever the local minimum standard there is, and then barely exceeds it, then you have a “superior” product. This “better pizza” may or may not sell. You see, “better” is a loaded adjective that has lots of things riding on it.

Product is an important element of successful marketing and business . . . but there are several others. I contend that it is the business’s personality, identity . . . it’s Brand . . . that sells. No amount of higher grade pizza will overcome lousy marketing. Same goes with public perception of who you are and what your business is about. This is not a business where the philosophy “Bake it and they will come” is going to work.

Branding includes visual identity, perceived services, match of service style to market demands (pickup,delivery,dine in). There is a better perception when the product and the perceived identity match. Boston Market struggled huge early on because they had a disconnect in higher grade product to Qucik service/fast food service style. People didn’t trust the place, or were confused. If customers like you, and trust you, then your poduct has greater perceived value to it.

If you make what you believe is a better pizza, and the marketplace can agree that it truly IS a better pizza, then they WILL pay for it. Better includes some or all of: pricing, value, taste, level of seasoning, type of soft drniks offered, appearance, cleanliness, servicelevels, convenience, committment to consistency, community involvement, friendliness, speed of service, comfort of facility, neatness of staff, clarity and passion in marketing messages, repetition of message to customers, sense of committment to their experience and satisfaction . . . yadda, yadda.

Once you and the customer can decide on what is a “better pizza”, I contend that they will ALWAYS buy it. The art/science is agreeing on that definition . . . which takes marketing, connection to the customers, and market research.

 

[Easygoer13]

Nick…

I agree…better is a combination of many things…and since taste is subjective it really cannot be proved…I do however think we all know that most can identify differences, some will have a great appreciation for them more than others…but you are correct it is the total package that must be addressed.

 

[PizzaDiva]

Easygoer13:

I think I am clear about our location…I am NOT trying to target the city I am in…just my local area which makes up 4 neighborhoods that if you need something this is the center you run to…my thought is… convenience for people who are already there…it puzzles me when I see so many pizza shops on main streets where there is a lot of commerce but not homes…If I was doing a burgers or on the go food I think it makes sense to be in the high flow areas…but for me and PLEASE tell me if I am wrong Pizza is take home food for most…I do have limited seating but the focus is take out and delivery…am I missing something

Yes, you are. Focusing on pizza only will not create the “GO TO” shop.

PD

 

[Easygoer13]

PizzaDiva:

Easygoer13:

I think I am clear about our location…I am NOT trying to target the city I am in…just my local area which makes up 4 neighborhoods that if you need something this is the center you run to…my thought is… convenience for people who are already there…it puzzles me when I see so many pizza shops on main streets where there is a lot of commerce but not homes…If I was doing a burgers or on the go food I think it makes sense to be in the high flow areas…but for me and PLEASE tell me if I am wrong Pizza is take home food for most…I do have limited seating but the focus is take out and delivery…am I missing something

Yes, you are. Focusing on pizza only will not create the “GO TO” shop.

PD

Interesting…Please share more as to why not…people who want good Pizza are not going to go why ?..I drive 15 miles for good Mexican food because there is none close that are worth anything…why would Pizza be different…I appreciate your thoughts…

Could it be that the reason so many food places never stand out is that they to be try be a little everything of or a jack of all trades and a master of none…

Wings seem to much the rage of late…I have yet find the pizza shop who’s wings are good as wing place…not to offend those who offer wings…but wings shops like…raging canes or the wing stop…I think I far better than pizza shops wings…

 

[NicksPizza]

Easygoer13:

PizzaDiva:

Yes, you are. Focusing on pizza only will not create the “GO TO” shop.

PD

Interesting…Please share more as to why not…people who want good Pizza are not going to go why ?..

I beleve the key phrase in Diva’s post is “pizza only”. People who want good pizza will go to the place that they feel most comfortable and has the best fit for them. Pizza alone is not going to be enough.

Necessary, but not sufficient.

 

[Easygoer13]

you may be right…but what is funny to me…is when I see a donut and it also does chianese I assume they must not be good at either one and pass…I do think you need somethings to round out your menu but if its a Pizza place than at least for me I think it should be what you are known for…

 

[Gpizza92]

The vast majority of consumers view pizza as a commodity item. These are the coupon customers. These customers will be wondering why your pizzas are 5-6 bucks more than the competitors. Because after all pizza is pizza. You will explain that on you put over 80 pepperonies on a large pepperoni pizza. That your deluxe pizza has over 1 pound of ingredients and that DOESN’T include cheese.
But it can be done. If your niche is to be the best or have premium pizza, your service, your shop, and your employees all better align with that niche. Or you will confuse the heck out of your guests.

 

[Easygoer13]

I agree top to bottom…you need to offer a real difference…I am still puzzled at this and that is…why making a better pie does seem to be the answer…If someone around here where I live was doing just a real nice pizza…I would be there…there are places twenty minutes from me…but I am not running down and grabbing one of those…I have always observed that those who are known for making better tasting food no matter the stlye have the crowds where I am at…We have lots of places here but those that are known for being good or “the best” are the one that do well…and for pizza in my local area there is no one stepping up to fill that slot…

 

[tdeane]

I guess I disagree with everyone else here. I do just pizza, nothing else. I have done zero advertising. I have only 10 seats. The one thing I do is make really good pizza and we are busy every day. I think you need to make sure you pizza is exceptional for people to go out of their way for it. I don’t agree with if you pizza is just a little better than everyone else’s than you already have the best pizza in town. That doesn’t make people tolerate no wings, no caesar, only a few seats, long waits etc. In my opinion, you either do what everybody else does and beat them with service, price, good marketing etc. or you just make a great product that is much better than the competition and focus on that. Don’t water it down. Only accept the best and people will notice.

 

[Easygoer13]

sounds like you and I think the same…The location I am looking at will also seat about 10, 12…I just want to focus on really good pizza…yes we will have a salad and something I am working on is a spinach pie I had Italy…it is so good and offers a choice for those in a family who may not want pizza…for those who just want good pizza, I hope we will be their choice…

 

[Crider]

I think you two’s ideas are fine. There’s advantages to not having a lot of restaurant seating (labor costs, capital costs) that are an advantage in this bad economy. There’s loss of potential alcohol sales by not having full restaurant seating, but the Shakey’s Pizza pitcher-of-beer model from the late 1950s, or the low-cost, high-automation made-by-inexperienced-teenagers Little Caesar’s & Yum Brands designed-by-food-chemists model from the 1990s does not make for guaranteed success. Why compete on their territory when we both know their food sucks? Making and serving the best you can is the only way to go, IMO. Just make sure you have a deep enough well of capital to get you through starting-up a business in a recession.

 

[Easygoer13]

Crider,

I agree there is no way to compete on price but at the end of the day if thats all they are offering and in my opinion that is it…it is certainly not service…or taste…You beat them on product and service…I have found that it is hard for people to go back or to go backward for something less when they know for 5 bucks more they can have something really good…At some point for myself and others when you have had something that is tangibly better if you can not get it…you will just pass until you can…the lesser product simply does not have the allure anymore.

 

[NicksPizza]

tdeane:

I guess I disagree with everyone else here. I do just pizza, nothing else. I have done zero advertising. I have only 10 seats. The one thing I do is make really good pizza and we are busy every day. I think you need to make sure you pizza is exceptional for people to go out of their way for it. I don’t agree with if you pizza is just a little better than everyone else’s than you already have the best pizza in town. That doesn’t make people tolerate no wings, no caesar, only a few seats, long waits etc. In my opinion, you either do what everybody else does and beat them with service, price, good marketing etc. or you just make a great product that is much better than the competition and focus on that. Don’t water it down. Only accept the best and people will notice.

It really does seem to come down to a business model and philosophical choice that fits in your market. If “busy every day” is a performance that you are pleased with (meets your goals), then you have met with success. If you wish to build a bigger business, grow sales significantly, broaden the market you service . . . then something else will probably be needed. Only you in your market can figure out what that “something else” will be.

Your model of business would cause mine to fail in a rather flamboyant and specatacular way in my marketplace. We will only survive/grow on repeat business, and capturing attention from further and further away. Our effective delivery radius has about 2500 people and maybe 800 homes. At least before the foreclosure bug started biting. A diverse menu, working on our print materials, a marketing plan and active participation in our community are keeping us going. Pizza currently accounts for something like 55% of our gross sales. We would lose a chunk of the rest of the 45% if we did only pizza . . . and we would possibly lose a lot of 2 or 3 time a week customers. 40 seat dining room helps drive higher tickets and gave us chance for beer/wine sales.

A menu of only my stellar pizza will not pay the bills, and does not match the business plan we built. Easygoes13, only you can guage your community and philosophy to figure out what model will work for you. Condiser that flexibility of resources is a significant advantage in the marketplace and figure how to maximize your flexibility in whatever you chose to do with your business. Gotta have SOME sort of options in case things go awry.

 

[Easygoer13]

NicksPizza:

tdeane:

I guess I disagree with everyone else here. I do just pizza, nothing else. I have done zero advertising. I have only 10 seats. The one thing I do is make really good pizza and we are busy every day. I think you need to make sure you pizza is exceptional for people to go out of their way for it. I don’t agree with if you pizza is just a little better than everyone else’s than you already have the best pizza in town. That doesn’t make people tolerate no wings, no caesar, only a few seats, long waits etc. In my opinion, you either do what everybody else does and beat them with service, price, good marketing etc. or you just make a great product that is much better than the competition and focus on that. Don’t water it down. Only accept the best and people will notice.

It really does seem to come down to a business model and philosophical choice that fits in your market. If “busy every day” is a performance that you are pleased with (meets your goals), then you have met with success. If you wish to build a bigger business, grow sales significantly, broaden the market you service . . . then something else will probably be needed. Only you in your market can figure out what that “something else” will be.

Your model of business would cause mine to fail in a rather flamboyant and specatacular way in my marketplace. We will only survive/grow on repeat business, and capturing attention from further and further away. Our effective delivery radius has about 2500 people and maybe 800 homes. At least before the foreclosure bug started biting. A diverse menu, working on our print materials, a marketing plan and active participation in our community are keeping us going. Pizza currently accounts for something like 55% of our gross sales. We would lose a chunk of the rest of the 45% if we did only pizza . . . and we would possibly lose a lot of 2 or 3 time a week customers. 40 seat dining room helps drive higher tickets and gave us chance for beer/wine sales.

A menu of only my stellar pizza will not pay the bills, and does not match the business plan we built. Easygoes13, only you can guage your community and philosophy to figure out what model will work for you. Condiser that flexibility of resources is a significant advantage in the marketplace and figure how to maximize your flexibility in whatever you chose to do with your business. Gotta have SOME sort of options in case things go awry.

Nick,

I think you nailed it…It comes down to your market…I mean within 5 minutes I have 50,000 people, well over 20,000 homes and a car count of over 80,000 a day…So for me in my plan focusing on Pizza to go/ delivery is conveince…I am not the place to out to dinner for but when you do not want to cook to have at home…but thats what I AM after…I saw this work quite well growing up and see it lacking today in my area today…Our menu will have a few items to round out the menu but its Pizza at its core…I agree with you it comes down to what works in your target market…and having a clear vision of what your plan is…of course it better be a realistic plan… :lol:

 

[PizzaDiva]

NicksPizza:

Easygoer13:

PizzaDiva:

Yes, you are. Focusing on pizza only will not create the “GO TO” shop.

PD

Interesting…Please share more as to why not…people who want good Pizza are not going to go why ?..

I beleve the key phrase in Diva’s post is “pizza only”. People who want good pizza will go to the place that they feel most comfortable and has the best fit for them. Pizza alone is not going to be enough.

Necessary, but not sufficient.

Thank You Nick, for expanding on that. The market is saturated with stores/shops falling daily in this economy. Owners need to go to that old train of thought and the often good advice Big Dave gave us (literally saved me as a very green owner) make it, offer it, they will buy it. Additionally, never stop improving and listen to what the Guests at a Pizzeria want. Something as silly as soup or chili will bring the family in.

Examine your market while still perfecting your PIZZA and people will return, talk and keep you in business!

There was a post I read with respect to salads. Why not have a nice garden salad prepped daily to add charred chicken, steak tips, coldcuts, egg salad, tuna…etc? It is already in your store but adds a huge selling item. If you are offering a Ceasar, prep the romaine daily and make it to order with whatever they ask for. The salad that really was popular was a steak bomb salad, go figure!! But easy!

Even now, I still miss the business.

PD