Newbie Dough Sheeter question

Pizza Shop Talk The Think Tank
1

Hi,

I am relatively new to the pizza business (about 9 months now) and we have established a pretty reputable store in a small town. We get a lot of compliments on our pizzas from both the locals as well as out-of-town visitors.

However I am facing an increasingly difficult problem.

Currently we hand roll out all of our skins and, well, it is just very time consuming. In our environment (small town, remote county, lots of tourists) the only thing I can rely on is that our business is utterly unpredictable. So hiring more help isn’t really an option…I would go broke if I staffed them all the time and we are not busy. Good help in a small town where the norm is government assistance is extremely hard to find anyway.

There is usually so much other work to do (topping prep, salad bar prep, accounting, payroll, taxes, etc.) that I don’t have regular time to pre-roll a bunch of skins out and really don’t have a good way of storing them if I did anyway.

So I am thinking that buying a dough sheeter is more and more the way to go for us. Straight out of the fridge, into the sheeter (maybe a little tossing to final size), onto the prep line and into the oven (electric brick deck oven).

I have about a $3K budget and want a new one with a new warranty…I don’t want to worry about it for a few years (I already have to deal with a problematic ice machine, refrigerators, sanitizer, sinks, drains, etc. in our 100+ year old building).

Anyway I have been looking at both a DoughPro DPR3000 and a Somerset CDR-2000S form Zesco.com, as those are the best prices I can find on new ones.

So my questions are: is either one better than the other? Are they good, reliable, workhorse brands to begin with? Does anyone have experience with Zesco.com? Is there a better place to buy one of these two models?

I need to get our 6+ minute time from ball to skin down…help!

Thanks :slight_smile:

2

Wow. 6 Minutes. There is a lot you can do in terms of operations to reduce that time. Buying a sheeter might not be your solution. You will get much more impact by changing the way you slap out dough. It takes me about 20 seconds, and some of the people I have worked with can blow that time away.

Are you working your dough right out of the fridge? Keeping it at room temp will go a long way toward speeding things up.

Out of the fridge and into the sheeter is also not a good solution. The cold dough will be harder to sheet out, and won’t hold the size well. Not to mention cold dough into the oven will mean longer cook times and slower oven recovery.

3

When we originally opened, we were taking the doughballs out of the fridge and letting them sit in a rack at room temp for a few hours, taking more out as needed. Then at the end of the night, what was left over was put back in the fridge.

What I found out was that if the doughballs were not used by the second day, they became over-fermented, very sticky and just undesirable. Because of our situation, I never know if a single 50lb batch will last a half day, a whole day or even up to 3 days or so…it is complete unpredictable.

By keeping them in the fridge until we actually roll them out, they last much longer and an are more stable in the long run.

It’s not to say we couldn’t pull out a few at a time and let them warm up before running them through the sheeter.

4

And actually let me preface this all (yeah in the 3rd response, lol) that I really, truly am new at all of this.

I have never owned or run a pizza place before, much less a restaurant or even my own business. So a lot of what I have done over the last 9 months I have gleaned by talking to others (mostly non-professionals) and did what made the most sense to me.

I am sure a lot of it is wrong or can be improved upon. But that being said, like I mentioned, we are fairly successful and things are working, it’s just that when we get slammed, I would like to find a way to get the pies out faster.

Other than speed, we have a nice store, nice atmosphere, good tasting pizzas, a good customer base (we are the only pizza place in the entire county), a decent menu and have gotten a lot of positive feedback from our customers. Believe me, in a small town like ours…word of mouth travels fast, and we would be out of business if we put out bad product or service.

5

Yep. You are starting to realize that you have a fairly small window to use your dough. Usually 18 to 72 hours. Either way, you want to leave your dough out for an hour before use to get it to room temp. You can start to accurately predict usage by taking an hourly average of 4 weeks (most accurate, let me know if you want the detailed description of how to do this), or just start taking out 20 dough balls at 5 every evening, and adjusting it from there.

An easy way to avoid loss is to start using starter dough. It is basically un-used dough that you put back into your next batch of dough. The gasses from fermentation are pushed out when mixing it, and many people find that it makes your dough a bit more flavorful. You don’t want to add more than about 10-15% though, eg 8 pounds of old dough per 50lb batch of dough.

You really want to tune your operations for the busy times (when you are slammed). Not what you came to hear, but no profitable restaurant is that unpredictable. Your solution rests in proper dough management, not equipment.

6

The Somerset 2000 is a fine sheeter, actually most are good including Acme, I have not used the DoughPro model, looks like the DoughPro is an 18" sheeter where the CDR is 20". You won’t go wrong with the Somerset for sure.

You don’t have to spend 3k for a new one, you can fine these on craigslist or crazed list which allows larger searches. I just bought one that was not used for $1300, so you can save that extra money to fix other broken stuff. Acmes are good too.

Cold from fridge to sheeter will be tough on the sheeter best to let it warm to 50 to 55 before using. It can be done though if you hand flatten the ball and work it a bit before running it through the sheeter, so you will be spending time there working the dough before sheeting.

7

Is your dough 50# of DOUGH or of flour? Making dough more frequently may help. Don’t plan on using a batch all day if you’re having problems. You can have things pre-measured (and IDY helps with this) aside from the water, and at any point throw it together and have dough ready to use in 10 minutes.

Cold dough is making the situation harder than it has to be. If that means you can’t use the dough for as long, well, that’s part of the game. Dough is reasonably cheap. Almost.

8

As far a ZESCO, I purchased an under sink grease trap from them earlier this year. It shipped promptly and they had the best price of anywhere I checked if that helps you.
Where are you located? Maybe you could visit one of the Think tank people for an afternoon for some hands on tips on dough. We do all our dough by hand and those that frequent the dough table can do 2-4 larges per minute depending on their experience, skill and the dough’s cooperation level.

Rick

9

Let your dough warm up for that magic hour before working it! You’ll be surprised how much quicker it opens, and how much better your pie becomes. I hired 2 of my “pizza guys” from a competitor who sheets, then puts the disks back into the fridge for up to 4 days. They were used to grabbing from the cooler and straight into the oven. I finally got them broke and we insist we set up a “starter box” of dough balls. For us, (pizza isn’t our main menu item) at lunch that means 10 8" balls, 2 12" and 4 14". It takes up two dough boxes plus a lid and it sits right on the line where it’s easy to grab. As we work though those now warmed up balls, we simply replace them from the cooler. At the end of service, they go back to “rest” again in the cooler for dinner. For our purposes, I can use the dough balls that were in and out for lunch AND dinner again the next day before they’ve blown.

Also…like another poster suggested, make 1/2 batches of dough if you can get by. You should have plenty to make it through even a great lunch service it sounds like, and can make another batch for dinner if you need to.

As far as using a sheeter, if you pre-warm your dough you may find it unnecessary. We have the Sommerset, like it alot, but only use it to open out the dough we build our deep dish out of. Everything else is hand opened and tossed for finish.

And kudos for being around 9 months and have this be your main problem!! You’re doing something Right!!

10

I have a somerset. I bought it used. Other than a switch going bad no problems in 3 years. This is a huge time saver. Though you will not want to sheet it out all the way as the bubbles will be awful. We sheet out half way, toss the other half. We take dough straight from the cooler with no problems

11

Thanks for all the great advice. Perhaps my dough and how I handle it is the problem, but I am reluctant to change that because of how long it took to “perfect” it and also introducing people to yet a new dough recipe.

As reluctant as I am, I after reading your responses, as well as other posts, I am beginning to feel there might be something wrong with our dough recipe. The dough seems to be very dense…even when warmed to 55 degrees or so. I do not use any sort of relaxer (and I am reluctant to introduce anything non-natural), but I certainly cannot take a doughball and stretch it out to a 16" pizza skin. It will just snap back into it’s original shape/size. This is why i think it is so hard to roll out to size.

Would it help if I posted our recipe and process for making our dough?

Also. 1/2 batches are not really an option. I tried that one time and our Hobart 660 couldn’t seem to mix such a small amount properly. The only other mixer I have is a small kitchenaid, which cannot handle that much.

When I say a batch, our batch of finished dough comes out to roughly 50lbs, and 25lbs is way to much for a kitchenaid.

12

Are you using 50lb bags of flour or 25lb?

13

Yeah, if you post your recipe and procedures some of the experts here can advise you. You apparently are happy with the finished product, but just need a more efficient way to get there. Tom and some of the others here can help you out.

As far as batch size, using bakers percents you can tweak the batch to whatever size you want. We use a Hobart 60Qt and our total batch is a little over 40 pounds and we have no trouble mixing.

Rick

14

This seems contrary to logic. If the sheeter de-gasses the dough, why do you get more bubbles when using one?

I’ll post up the recipe and procedure tomorrow… man I need some sleep!

15

We use 25 lbs of flour (from a 50lb bag lol). I’ll post the recipe tomorrow when I have a minutes…time for some ZZZZZZZs

16

Hmmm. 25 lbs of flour should get you about 40 lbs of dough not 50. If you post your recipe, I am sure a bit of tweaking will not change the flavor in any noticeable way. That said, you will only get so much mileage out of that.

Changing the way you slap out pizzas will give you a much better return.

17

I looked closer and the batch yields a net weight of 42.38lb…so I was high when I said 50lb. Here is the recipe…

25.0 lb Mondako Flour (http://www.pfmills.com/mondako-flour-products-2.php)
2.0 lb Semolina Flour (http://www.pfmills.com/-1-semolina-products-15.php)
14.0 lb Water
3.0 oz Instant SAF Yeast
8.0 oz Salt
14.0 oz Sugar
6.0 oz Granulated Garlic
1.0 cup Olive Oil

All measurements are by weight, except the olive oil, which is volume.

Water, Garlic, Oil, Salt & Sugar are mixed with a wire hand whip in the mixing bowl thoroughly, then the Mondako is added, then the Semolina and finally the yeast. At that point we mount the mixer dough hook and mix everything for about 5 minutes.

At this point we check the dough to see if it is a little dry or wet and occasionally add a little more water (maybe 1/4 cup) and (very rarely) a little more flour then we continue mixing for another 5 minutes.

Then the dough is removed from the bowl and set on a table for 15 minutes to rise (first rise).

Then it is portioned out into small, medium and large balls, placed into individual plastic bread bags and set to rise (second rise) in the fridge overnight. The next day they are moved to a staging fridge near our make line and pulled directly from the fridge to the rolling table.

This process has worked out well for us for 9 months now, it just that the “rolling the doughballs out” part has been tedious and slow. Other than that, the pizza crusts have turned out really well.

18

Certainly the temperature of the dough ball is a flag. Others can speak better to the recipe specs.

Do you move as easily when you first get out of bed? Do you stretch, yawn, scratch, mutter a bit, stumble for a minute or two? Your dough has been resting in a cold environment, needs a little warmup time, just as you probably do. Putting it to work right after waking it up makes for cranky dough. Try giving it at least 15 minutes before sheeting. A little longer, even, and work backwards to find the ideal time.

19

You have a fine formulation and if you and your customers are happy with the finished crust it would be a poor move to change it. There is nothing wrong with the formulation so regardless of what you are reading no need to get spooked and start changing what is working for you. Also, hand forming and tossing will change the texture and crumb of the finished crust so that might be a mistake too for you since your customers are happy today.

Your formulation breaks down as follows if my math is correct

Flour 100%
Water 51.85%
Yeast .69%
Salt 1.85%
Sugar 3.2%
Garlic 1.38%
Oil 1.41%

Nothing is out of line and some perfectionist might want to adjust the oil but the formulation works for you. Semolina in at 8% a nice touch.

We have not discussed dough management and temps but I don’t really see a need again since it works for you keep doing what you have been.

Your only issue is the rolling, so go get the sheeter and work with it. Somerset, Anet, Acme even the old Colborne 21" models will work great.

20

You dough recipe is somewhat unique but then everyone has their own one that works. I would have to agree that you are having issues because you are pulling cold dough and it is very hard to work with dough like that. Tom will be able to give you a lot of advice on the dough formula and process to make life a bit easier for you. Post a question in the “ask the experts” area and I am sure he will have insite for you. Are you measuring your water temp and final dough temp when making the dough? A good video to watch is Tom’s dough making videos in the Dough Info Center link on the PMQ mainpage. I think you will see a lot of the process factors that new operators tend to overlook or not even know about in the first place. What kind of pizza are you making with this dough? Thin, thick, pan, cracker? The dough has a very low absorbtion rate of under 52%… so just curious. As I am writing this I see another posts that talks about not changing what works…but that is the problem… this dough is hard to work with. I am not saying you need to change the formula or the taste of your product… but I do think that being new and with so many factors in dough that even a little change here or there can really impact the outcome… it would be worth the time and effort to play around with a few different options and see if the finished product turns out for the better. I think that by just adjusting your prep process a little will greatly help your issue and also by allowing the dough to temper to room temps will make life easier on the make line and improve the baked product. Best of luck and I am curious as to what Tom thinks.