Lawsuit Against Domino's for Failing to Reimburse Drivers

[system]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver

paul7979:

The point is that the EMPLOYER must MAINTAIN them, even if the employee must fill them out. That’s why it is called "record KEEPING’ and not ‘record filling-outing’.

So Gregster, if your employer gave you a sheet of paper for you to fill out your actual costs and reimbursed you the actual expenses, you would be satisfied with that? What if these actual expenses only added up to 27 cents per mile?

Sure! You can pay me minimum wage while I do it also. I don’t work for free.

 

[system]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
Wizzle Wassell:

I know if I asked my drivers to record the ‘actual’ costs I’d get away with much less than I pay presently. I pay ‘road legal’ (OBU) insurance so thats zero insurance cost. I know that nearly all do not have their vehicles serviced, most will have absolutely no idea how to work out depreciation and even if they did it would be minimal on most of their vehicles, and based on my absence records most breakdowns, flat tyres and other car problems happen outside of work. Maybe as a ‘penny pinching owner’ I should move to actual costs!

Perhaps if you paid 55 cents per mile your employees could afford more reliable cars and maintain them better.

Zero insurance cost? Not for your employees! Just because car problems happen outside work, does not mean that you are not partially liable for the cost of them when that vehicle is used for business. Car expenses are amortized over ALL of the miles driven. You don’t get to pick and choose which costs you pay for.

 

[paul7979]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
gregster:

paul7979:

The point is that the EMPLOYER must MAINTAIN them, even if the employee must fill them out. That’s why it is called "record KEEPING’ and not ‘record filling-outing’.

So Gregster, if your employer gave you a sheet of paper for you to fill out your actual costs and reimbursed you the actual expenses, you would be satisfied with that? What if these actual expenses only added up to 27 cents per mile?

Sure! You can pay me minimum wage while I do it also. I don’t work for free.

So in your mind a tip credit should only be used if paying a driver the IRS allowable mileage rate, regardless of what the drivers actual vehicle expenses are?

 

[steveo922]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
gregster:

Perhaps if you paid 55 cents per mile your employees could afford more reliable cars and maintain them better.

BWHAHAHA. That might just be one of the dumbest comments I ever heard.

 

[dman66]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
gregster:

Wizzle Wassell:

I know if I asked my drivers to record the ‘actual’ costs I’d get away with much less than I pay presently. I pay ‘road legal’ (OBU) insurance so thats zero insurance cost. I know that nearly all do not have their vehicles serviced, most will have absolutely no idea how to work out depreciation and even if they did it would be minimal on most of their vehicles, and based on my absence records most breakdowns, flat tyres and other car problems happen outside of work. Maybe as a ‘penny pinching owner’ I should move to actual costs!

Perhaps if you paid 55 cents per mile your employees could afford more reliable cars and maintain them better.

Zero insurance cost? Not for your employees! Just because car problems happen outside work, does not mean that you are not partially liable for the cost of them when that vehicle is used for business. Car expenses are amortized over ALL of the miles driven. You don’t get to pick and choose which costs you pay for.

This boy is in need of schooling… :roll: …Your work related car expenses are amortized over miles driven on the job…So yes, the employer gets to choose what costs to pay you…Unless you want him to also pay your car expenses for your own personal use?..

If he thinks you’re too expensive & doesn’t want to pay you what you’re demanding?..Quit & sue him, I’m sure you’d have all your records & receipits handy…Hopefully you’d even have a binding contract with your employer on the agreed amount of mileage pay you’re suppose to be getting…Anything else can be disputed…

If you were my employee, all the hate & contempt you have for owners?..I’d keep you on the schedule with 3 hours a week just as a good samaritan…

How would yall treat an employee like this guy?..

 

[steveo922]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver

dman66:

How would yall treat an employee like this guy?..

I would never, never, never, never, never have an employee as disgruntled as gregster.

 

[Wizzle_Wassell]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
gregster:

Wizzle Wassell:

Anything you post is 100% law, anything which contradicts it is our misinterpretation. You’ve no qualification in the interpretation of law, you WORK as a driver at one of the shops you so despise so what’s to take seriously?

The very point you are attempting to make disqualifies your own opinion for the very same reason.

nope it doesn’t disqualify my OPINION, in exactly the same way you are allowed an OPINION however you are not giving an OPINION are you? you are TELLING us THIS IS THE LAW.

In addition you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about me, I may have a law degree for all you know. You have told us you haven’t, you have ASSUMED I HAVEN’T.

 

[Wizzle_Wassell]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
gregster:

Wizzle Wassell:

I know if I asked my drivers to record the ‘actual’ costs I’d get away with much less than I pay presently. I pay ‘road legal’ (OBU) insurance so thats zero insurance cost. I know that nearly all do not have their vehicles serviced, most will have absolutely no idea how to work out depreciation and even if they did it would be minimal on most of their vehicles, and based on my absence records most breakdowns, flat tyres and other car problems happen outside of work. Maybe as a ‘penny pinching owner’ I should move to actual costs!

Perhaps if you paid 55 cents per mile your employees could afford more reliable cars and maintain them better.

Zero insurance cost? Not for your employees! Just because car problems happen outside work, does not mean that you are not partially liable for the cost of them when that vehicle is used for business. Car expenses are amortized over ALL of the miles driven. You don’t get to pick and choose which costs you pay for.

Perhaps if I’d told you how much I pay then that would be up for debate but I haven’t so you are grasping at straws!

‘Car expenses are amortized over ALL of the miles driven. You don’t get to pick and choose which costs you pay for’ -

ummm yes I do! I am NOT responsible for items which are wholly for non-business use therefore I can exclude the ‘personal’ insurance which would not be used for the business in the same way I can exclude the cost of the new cd player a driver installs in the car. Next you’ll be telling me that if a driver tows a trailer then I’m responsible for that as well.

‘Just because car problems happen outside work, does not mean that you are not partially liable for the cost of them when that vehicle is used for business’

ummm- yes I can - so if my driver has an at fault accident outside or work he can ammortise this costs and I am responsible?? NOPE, not true. I am responsible for the BUSINESS USE element of car costs. SOME items can be ammortised NOT ALL.

Gregster you are grasping at straws now!! Not only have you NOT got a LAW degree you have obviously NOT studied for ACCOUNTANCY either have you?

 

[Wizzle_Wassell]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver

dman66

your technical comments about gregster’s posts may well be true but I find your other ‘personal’ comments about him out of order. As much as I question gregsters opinion I’d like to think posters can be a little more grown up on this site than I can see you are used to at TTPG.

I’m not a moderator so shoot me down in flames if you want but I think most of the long term posters will back me up on this one.

Wiz

 

[dman66]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
Wizzle Wassell:

dman66

your technical comments about gregster’s posts may well be true but I find your other ‘personal’ comments about him out of order. As much as I question gregsters opinion I’d like to think posters can be a little more grown up on this site than I can see you are used to at TTPG.

I’m not a moderator so shoot me down in flames if you want but I think most of the long term posters will back me up on this one.

Wiz

Ok Wiz I understand…I’ll abide by that…

 

[system]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
Wizzle Wassell:

‘Just because car problems happen outside work, does not mean that you are not partially liable for the cost of them when that vehicle is used for business’

ummm- yes I can - so if my driver has an at fault accident outside or work he can ammortise this costs and I am responsible?? NOPE, not true. I am responsible for the BUSINESS USE element of car costs. SOME items can be ammortised NOT ALL.

By your logic, If a driver has a NOT at fault accident while at work, and the car is totaled, then you ARE responsible for the total cost?

 

[system]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver

paul7979:

So in your mind a tip credit should only be used if paying a driver the IRS allowable mileage rate, regardless of what the drivers actual vehicle expenses are?

In my mind, tip credit should not be allowed at all. But that’s just my opinion.

The law as written seems fair to me, IRS standard rate or actual costs with the burden of paperwork on the business.

 

[system]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver

steveo922:

I would never, never, never, never, never have an employee as disgruntled as gregster.

I interpret that as you dislike having employees who know their legal rights and stands up for them. Is paying minimum wage and mileage IAW the law a problem for you?

 

[system]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver

steveo922:

gregster:

Perhaps if you paid 55 cents per mile your employees could afford more reliable cars and maintain them better.

BWHAHAHA. That might just be one of the dumbest comments I ever heard.

In your opinion, what makes that a ‘dumb statement’? You don’t think that paying employees better would make them able to better maintain their vehicles?

If a person is paid so poorly that they must choose between paying for food, housing and car repairs, you would mock them for choosing food and housing first?

 

[steveo922]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
gregster:

I interpret that as you dislike having employees who know their legal rights and stands up for them.

You can interpret that any way you want. There’s a fine line between someone, such as yourself, and someone that makes a lot of money doing easy, easy work that complains ZERO percent of the time.
gregster:

Is paying minimum wage and mileage IAW the law a problem for you?

Actually no, no its not. I don’t pay any of my staff less that minimum wage. Thank you for asking though.

 

[system]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
Wizzle Wassell:

gregster:

Wizzle Wassell:

Anything you post is 100% law, anything which contradicts it is our misinterpretation. You’ve no qualification in the interpretation of law, you WORK as a driver at one of the shops you so despise so what’s to take seriously?

The very point you are attempting to make disqualifies your own opinion for the very same reason.

nope it doesn’t disqualify my OPINION, in exactly the same way you are allowed an OPINION however you are not giving an OPINION are you? you are TELLING us THIS IS THE LAW.
.

It seems to me that the DOL is the source of the information. I’m pretty sure that the DOL is very careful to point out when they are posting their opinion as opposed to regulations based on US laws. Do you doubt their credibility? Don’t use my links then, just go look it up yourself:

From page 31 of the DOL Field Operations Handbook (FOH) chapter 30

http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/FOH/FOH_Ch30.pdf

Car expenses - employee’s use personal car on employer’s business.

In some cases it is necessary to determine the costs involved when employees use their cars on their employer’s business in order to determine MW compliance. For example, car expenses are frequently an issue for delivery drivers employed by pizza or other carry-out type restaurants.
(a) As an enforcement policy, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) standard business mileage rate found in IRS Publication 917, “Business Use of a Car” may be used (in lieu of actual costs and associated recordkeeping) to determine or evaluate the employer’s wage payment practices for FLSA purposes. The IRS standard business mileage rate (currently 28 cents per mile)(EDIT: Now it is 55 cents per mile as of Jan 1 2009) represents depreciation, maintenance and repairs, gasoline (including taxes), oil, insurance, and vehicle registration fees. In situations where the IRS rate changes during the investigation period, the applicable rates should be applied on a pro-rata basis.
(b) The IRS standard business mileage rate may be used in lieu of actual costs for FLSA purposes whether or not the employee will be able to take a deduction on his or her tax return for the business use of the employee‘s car.

The DOL says it’s the law, not me. I am just repeating the information as it seems it is difficult for some to understand.

 

[steveo922]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
gregster:

In your opinion, what makes that a ‘dumb statement’? You don’t think that paying employees better would make them able to better maintain their vehicles?

No, no I don’t. I’ve had about 50-75 drivers in my experience and NONE of them ever complained that they need 55 cents a mile to get their car washed, cleaned, oil changed or major repairs etc etc.

And actually, re-reading your statement… I do pay my employees well… I don’t have any employed drivers at this store currently, but my last store I worked at, all the drivers made more money than every single one of the staff within. Yet, none of the employees (non-drivers) ever complained that they need a raise to help pay for maintenance costs due to their travel to and from work. Hmmm…
gregster:

If a person is paid so poorly that they must choose between paying for food, housing and car repairs, you would mock them for choosing food and housing first?

Man, you are AWESOME at misinterpreting what people are actually saying. When did I ever say that??? I don’t care if they spend their money on bills, food, chicks, booze, drugs etc. To each their own. But you know, I know, and everyone else knows that drivers make good money, and they rarely rarely clean or maintain their delivery vehicles. If you are the > 1% of people that do, then god bless ya.

 

[system]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
gregster:

In your opinion, what makes that a ‘dumb statement’? You don’t think that paying employees better would make them able to better maintain their vehicles?

steveo922:

No, no I don’t. I’ve had about 50-75 drivers in my experience and NONE of them ever complained that they need 55 cents a mile to get their car washed, cleaned, oil changed or major repairs etc etc.

Maybe because none of them knew that the law requires it? In my experience the vast majority of drivers are unaware of their rights under minimum wage and other labor laws. Many business owners and managers do not fully understand the law either.

steveo922:

And actually, re-reading your statement… I do pay my employees well… I don’t have any employed drivers at this store currently, but my last store I worked at, all the drivers made more money than every single one of the staff within. Yet, none of the employees (non-drivers) ever complained that they need a raise to help pay for maintenance costs due to their travel to and from work. Hmmm…

Many people (including drivers) lump reimbursement in along with wages and tips. Most drivers never realize how much money they are actually loosing on vehicle expenses, or if they do, they never know how much. I have given an example here before that when I was paid MORE than minimum wage, my net wage after including reimbursement and deducting expenses was BELOW minimum wage.
gregster:

If a person is paid so poorly that they must choose between paying for food, housing and car repairs, you would mock them for choosing food and housing first?

steveo922:

Man, you are AWESOME at misinterpreting what people are actually saying. When did I ever say that??? I don’t care if they spend their money on bills, food, chicks, booze, drugs etc. To each their own. But you know, I know, and everyone else knows that drivers make good money, and they rarely rarely clean or maintain their delivery vehicles. If you are the > 1% of people that do, then god bless ya.

I did not misinterpret what you said, or even claim that you said it. I merely posed a hypothetical question. You DO seem to care what drivers spend their money on though. You seem to be saying that they should spend more of their money on car maintenance, and less on “chicks, booze, drugs etcâ€. Again, mileage reimbursement is usually included in the ‘good money’ that drivers make. Mileage is almost always less than expenses in my experience, and even if it was equal to expenses, it is not ‘income’, it is repayment for money the driver already spent.

If driver pay is ‘so good’, then why do delivery drivers in general drive such crappy cars?

 

[steveo922]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
gregster:

If driver pay is ‘so good’, then why do delivery drivers in general drive such crappy cars?

Haha, nice try. I’m not falling into that trap…

 

[paul7979]

Re: Lawsuit Against Domino’s for Failing to Reimburse Driver
gregster:

Gpizza92:

If I’m paying him FULL minimum I assume tips could offset the per mile cost. If he was making only the tip credit then it wouldn’t be the case because the tips would go to offset the fact I’m not paying him minimum wage.

No they may not:

From page 38 of the DOL Field Operations Handbook (FOH) chapter 30

http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/FOH/FOH_Ch30.pdf

“Tips in excess of statutory tip credit may not be credited against uniform purchase and maintenance costs”

From “Fact Sheet #15: Tipped Employees Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)”

http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.pdf

Retention of Tips: The law forbids any arrangement between the employer and the tipped employee whereby any part of the tip received becomes the property of the employer. A tip is the sole property of the tipped employee.
It is posts like yours that give me very good reason for continuing to post here. Employers have NO RIGHT to use employee tips to pay their business expenses!

[/quote]

In the situation that Gpizza92 is describing, tips very likely can be used to offset mileage reimbursement. Page 39 of the above mentioned DOL FOH clearly shows an example of how tips can be credited towards expenses if the full allowed tip credit is not applied. This has been brought to Gregsters attention many times but yet he continues to ignore this page while regularly quoting from page 38. Turn the page Gregster, turn the page.