Want to start delivery. Need help.

[Charles]

gregster, I gave you a chance after your initial tirade. Your broken record posts and the glee you folks from TTPG take over at your home forum and chat room reveals your duplicitous nature.

 

[system]

thepizza:

Never hire a driver who just drives.

I have cross-trained to do every job at the operational level for a couple of decades. Knowing what I know, I find I make my best money on the road.

So my current gigs keep me that way 100% of the time I’m on the clock.

I don’t have time for dishes, mopping, etc, etc. There are people inside the store who make less than I do who do that.

My job is to go get the money. I don’t have time for chores. When I come in there are deliveries waiting on me, and I go in and out like a Ron Jeremy movie until time to cash out.

Drivers should never work for a shop where they are on par with the dishwasher, IMO.

 

[dman66]

Dewar's Pizza Bakery:

gregster, I gave you a chance after your initial tirade. Your broken record posts and the glee you folks from TTPG take over at your home forum and chat room reveals your duplicitous nature.

You see, I feel the problem with gregers isn’t a lack of mileage pay nor a lack of wage…Gregster’s nature & duplicitous behavior is a result of being in your 40s & retired… I’m convinced the real problem with gregster isn’t a lack of mileage or wage pay, rather the problem is he has too much time on his hands…

How old are you now greger chap?..43, 44? :? …Its called the good life, I guess…You see when gregster was a kid he use to always love playing the roll of doctor, policeman, fireman, war her, etc, all to impress his peers & parents alike :arrow: …Now today as he matured, he took a fancy in playing the lawyer. :mrgreen: … :roll: …Maybe the best thing for gregster would be to go back to college & become a real lawyer, instead of playing the roll of “cut & paste” lawyer on message boards…

 

[system]

thepizza:

gregster:

Delivery charges hurt drivers tips (why should owners care?) while padding profit margins. .

Profit margin = jobs.

As long as the driver is getting a good wage and fair compensation for mileage, I could really care less about them getting tips. I think the whole idea of tipping is totally absurd. I have never liked it as I don’t think I should have to pay that “hidden charge” .I also will never pay my drivers a tipped wage, I have more respect for them than that, nor would I pay my servers (if I had any) sub-min wage either.

I will only tip in two instances

1. Only when I get absolutely outstanding service.
2. I tip the delivery driver a few $ because I know it can be a dangerous job and I can relate. But only if I get great service.

That’s absurd.

You should always want to know that your drivers are getting great tips. If your drivers are getting great tips, your customers are very happy. Unhappy customers tip like crap.

It amazes me how so many shop owners have this service that their customers want, and will pay a premium and a tip for, yet many try to constantly minimize the role of delivery in their operations.

The three most successful chains in the world have built their empires on delivery, yet many refuse to embrace the potential and become expert in how to profit from it. :roll:

 

[system]

NicksPizza:

If I could simply add .75 to each pizza, I would have already done that. Really, I would have.

The balance of costs between the delivery customers (who generate enormous added costs) and the carry-out/dine-in segment is a real tricky concept. There is a consideration of branding and business model to consider in that one needs to consider where the most value/revenue/profit is being generated and drive sales to that segment. Proffering free delivery at the same price as dining in, then people will possibly just get delivery or carry out and take sales from that really nice dining room you built. Delivery may attract a whole different segment of the market that would be otherwise unattracted to your store.

However, if delivery is seen as an additional service that should be paid for only by those demanding that service, and not everyone who buys food, then the strategy is different. Dine-in customers demand less in terms of disposables, less labor costs, and less general overhead as compared to delivery customers. Both are useful customer sources, and you gotta decide how each fit into your business plan and pricing model. Make a business decision and then find the labor resources that will enable you to meet the goals you set in your business plan for each service segment.

This is where I see the flaws in this plan:

You are isolating the three areas of your business instead of using them to complement each other.

Yes, delivery means higher costs. If you isolate them as being only delivery-related in your pricing, instead of letting your carryout and dine-in absorb some of that costs, you’re going to continue to see delivery as an expense instead of an asset.

The fewer deliveries you take after buying that insurance, delivery bags, cartop signs, and hiring drivers, the more it costs you per delivery order. Trying to steer more customers toward dine-in and carryout does two things: Cheapens your product since you’re offering a discount for that service; and increases your cost per delivery by steering business away from the permium service (delivery).

I see many customers order delivery at home, delivery at work, carryout, and dine in, depending on their desires at the time. They know we’re there for them no matter what their needs.

New customers see drivers running in and out the front door with stacks and armfulls of food to deliver, and know they can get whatever service they need, anytime.

As in every other area of your business, raising your delivery volume will have the effect of causing your delivery expense percentages to fall.

How is doing fewer deliveries going to make those numbers go down?

Get your delivery business booming, get productivity out of the drivers so you can all make money, and when the drivers are walking out having 30 deliveries in 5 hours and making $30 an hour and each one has brought you in $600 in sales in that time, you’ll see what I mean.

Ain’t tryin to do no dishes man! Just pickin up cheese.

EDIT: BTW I’m all for the delivery charge, I just don’t share with the company.

As I explained to the new customer the other day: Yes sir, that buck and a half is my gas money. They make sure I get that cuz you know some people are just SUPER cheap. If you wish to tip for the service, that’s your option. If you choose to do so, it is appropriate to tip a driver just like any other server, 15-20%.

How much is 20%?

Just hand me the $5 sir, and we’re good.

He smiled. I smiled. It was a good 2 minutes of both of our lives.

Hey, he asked!

 

[dman66]

WOW! :shock: …LoneStar is on a roll!..Come on peoples, you gotta admit 2 great back to back views from LoneStar there above me…

I agree 110% with both those posts above!

Nicely said LS!

 

[Wizzle_Wassell]

I take a similar approach to LS (if I read it right) and it works very well for me.

(I’ve posted most of this before but here goes again) I’m at the premium end of my market place and competing in a market with lots of cheap (dirty, unorgansied etc) shops (some maybe 50% of my price but serve really bad products). I DON’T charge a delivery fee (most of my competition do).

75% of my business by sales revenue is delivery

However, to be honest I like to keep the door open to those who may not be able or want to pay our delivery prices so I have a really good carry out deal - had it for years - buy any large pizza and get a 2nd for free. This does a few things for me:

1. We can complete head to head for 2 pies with virtually everyone in the area (although you have to pick it up from me)
2. It keeps the carry out area busy (nothing beats having a load of customers in your carryout area - it sends such a strong message that your busy)
3. If we are getting slammed and delivery time is long it gives customers another option
4. it gets some people in the door for the first time who will go on to order delivery from us.

Whilst the food cost on BOGOF is obviously higher I only offer this on my large pie so that I keep the ticket price higher.

 

[thepizza]

LoneStar:

thepizza:

gregster:

Delivery charges hurt drivers tips (why should owners care?) while padding profit margins. .

Profit margin = jobs.

As long as the driver is getting a good wage and fair compensation for mileage, I could really care less about them getting tips. I think the whole idea of tipping is totally absurd. I have never liked it as I don’t think I should have to pay that “hidden charge” .I also will never pay my drivers a tipped wage, I have more respect for them than that, nor would I pay my servers (if I had any) sub-min wage either.

I will only tip in two instances

1. Only when I get absolutely outstanding service.
2. I tip the delivery driver a few $ because I know it can be a dangerous job and I can relate. But only if I get great service.

That’s absurd.

You should always want to know that your drivers are getting great tips. If your drivers are getting great tips, your customers are very happy. Unhappy customers tip like crap.

It amazes me how so many shop owners have this service that their customers want, and will pay a premium and a tip for, yet many try to constantly minimize the role of delivery in their operations.

The three most successful chains in the world have built their empires on delivery, yet many refuse to embrace the potential and become expert in how to profit from it. :roll:

You see - I don’t want to build my business the way the chains have. I dislike everything about them. I have chosen to build my business by other means.

I agree that if my drivers are giving great service then I do hope they are getting great tips - in that regard. I just have a problem with the whole concept of tipping, everyone today expects to get a tip rather than actually try and earn it. I would never turn away a tip, but I would never expect one. And on top of that you get treated rude after the transaction if you don’t tip. I would rather be the one compensating my employees for doing a great job rather than my customers. Which I do, as minimum wage in my state is $7.30 most of my drivers who have been here for any length of time are at or above $10 per hour. I the employer should be the one doing the compensating not the customer. Just my opinion on how the world should work.

 

[system]

thepizza:

LoneStar:

thepizza:

gregster:

Delivery charges hurt drivers tips (why should owners care?) while padding profit margins. .

Profit margin = jobs.

As long as the driver is getting a good wage and fair compensation for mileage, I could really care less about them getting tips. I think the whole idea of tipping is totally absurd. I have never liked it as I don’t think I should have to pay that “hidden charge” .I also will never pay my drivers a tipped wage, I have more respect for them than that, nor would I pay my servers (if I had any) sub-min wage either.

I will only tip in two instances

1. Only when I get absolutely outstanding service.
2. I tip the delivery driver a few $ because I know it can be a dangerous job and I can relate. But only if I get great service.

That’s absurd.

You should always want to know that your drivers are getting great tips. If your drivers are getting great tips, your customers are very happy. Unhappy customers tip like crap.

It amazes me how so many shop owners have this service that their customers want, and will pay a premium and a tip for, yet many try to constantly minimize the role of delivery in their operations.

The three most successful chains in the world have built their empires on delivery, yet many refuse to embrace the potential and become expert in how to profit from it. :roll:

You see - I don’t want to build my business the way the chains have. I dislike everything about them. I have chosen to build my business by other means.

I agree that if my drivers are giving great service then I do hope they are getting great tips - in that regard. I just have a problem with the whole concept of tipping, everyone today expects to get a tip rather than actually try and earn it. I would never turn away a tip, but I would never expect one. And on top of that you get treated rude after the transaction if you don’t tip. I would rather be the one compensating my employees for doing a great job rather than my customers. Which I do, as minimum wage in my state is $7.30 most of my drivers who have been here for any length of time are at or above $10 per hour. I the employer should be the one doing the compensating not the customer. Just my opinion on how the world should work.

By merely showing up at your table with the food, or at your door with a pizza, in a timely manner, they HAVE earned the tip! Anything MORE than that is where the exemplary service comes in, and therefore tips should be adjusted up from the minimum in appreciation for the exceptional service.

As tip-credit is nearly ubiquitous for waitresses (servers) and is spreading like cancer in the pizza delivery biz, many of those people rightfully so expect to be tipped because it is a necessary part of their income. In those cases the proprietor of the business is essentially saying that they are offering you lower prices on the goods they sell, but that they EXPECT you to tip the person serving you IN PLACE OF the full minimum wage. Tips ARE expected in those situations, and to not tip a minimum amount for adequate service in taking unfair advantage of an understood situation. Some even call it a ‘theft of (the servers) services’.

 

[system]

thepizza:

You see - I don’t want to build my business the way the chains have. I dislike everything about them. I have chosen to build my business by other means.

Good for you. But don’t expect to succeed at delivery if you don’t run it for volume and efficiency.

 

[stridemiester]

If an employee is paid at least minimum wage and the requested… err contested $.55 a mile for use of their vehicle, why should they keep all the tip? Everyone at the store has made a contribution to serving the customer a great meal… why should the person who performs the final service reap all the reward for great service throughout the shop?

What effect do you think this would have on your organization?

 

[Charles]

stridemiester:

If an employee is paid at least minimum wage and the requested… err contested $.55 a mile for use of their vehicle, why should they keep all the tip? Everyone at the store has made a contribution to serving the customer a great meal… why should the person who performs the final service reap all the reward for great service throughout the shop?

What effect do you think this would have on your organization?

This is what I have been contemplating. The law says that the tip is a gift to the employee and they cannot be forced to share… or something to that effect without actually looking it back up. However, I believe they are referring to more traditional tipped employees such as wait staff.

Ideally, I would have my own cars, the drivers are paid like every other employee based on their merit, and tips are shared among all employees (divided by hours worked and current merit pay). I do not think any current drivers of the big 3 could make this transition. It is a different sort of thinking. More of a cooperative team approach than a individualistic one.

I would hope this would result in a greater labor pool of drivers and more team productivity. I do not know of anyone doing this so it may not work at all. Worth a shot.

 

[stridemiester]

I my opinion it would be hard for existing drivers to make the transition to shared tips. Productivity could be problematic unless monitored closely, and accurate tip accounting could be dicey also. It would take a crew willing to put into action the standards they expect from their shop owner. The theory is great, but real world application would take exceptional leadership and a great crew. In my experience if you have both of those items… it isn’t a problem to make about any system work.

 

[Charles]

stridemiester:

but real world application would take exceptional leadership and a great crew.

Which I expect. Otherwise, I might as well just return to the corporate world. I am in this for the joy I receive in building up a crew that can be proud they are the best in the business.

 

[Dox47]

stridemiester:

If an employee is paid at least minimum wage and the requested… err contested $.55 a mile for use of their vehicle, why should they keep all the tip? Everyone at the store has made a contribution to serving the customer a great meal… why should the person who performs the final service reap all the reward for great service throughout the shop?

What effect do you think this would have on your organization?

I’m sure Gregster will post the actual text shortly, but the law specifically disallows mandatory tip pooling, as well as tip pools that include positions that are not generally tipped, such as cooks and supervisors. Aside from the legal aspect, it would be impossible to enforce on cash tips, unless you are willing to call every customer and verify what they gave the driver. Tips are the only reason to work as a driver, so tampering with them would also have the effect of making your shop anathema for drivers to work at, and reduce the work pool for that position at your shop to people who either don’t know any better, or are so desperate that they’ll take anything. Besides, the driver is still the one providing the service and taking the risks, that’s what the tip is all about.

 

[Rockstar_pizza]

you are wrong! Starbucks pools all there tips and it is divided equally, its then taxed and equally divided amongest everyone at the store.
2) where do I get the free delivery bags from? and the extra insurance to cover the drivers I cant remember what company said they would do that for free!!! could somone pm me that info because I think I have been getting hosed. I have been having higher operating cost.
3) I charge a 1.50 delivery fee. but I keep it all. Thats right my drivers make 7.00 an hour (more than minuim wage) plus there tips. :shock:
4) they are required to do everyting, take an order, make an order and deliver an order.
we alternate days that one has to stay and help with clean up.
5) I have 2 delivery vehicles that I own, I figured long ago if I have to insure a driver it might as well be my cars
got one wrapped, no more crying the car toppers scratch my top no belly aching about gas prices no my car broke down, I need brakes. I worked out free oil changes and I have 2- two hundered dollar credits ( I cater 2 major events that total 200.00 so I just get gift cards so if something goes wrong.
so it worked out great.
also I have the same drivers I opened with. So I know I am not abusing them

 

[stridemiester]

Under my scenario there would be very little financial risk, only normal delivery job risks. Do you tip the UPS man or the mailman? Seems you would like to have your cake and eat it too. Drivers are an important cog in the system, but they can’t function without the rest of the team firing on all cylinders. Shouldn’t they participate in they rewards of a job well done?

 

[Dox47]

stridemiester:

Under my scenario there would be very little financial risk, only normal delivery job risks. Do you tip the UPS man or the mailman?

First, do you know what UPS drivers and mailmen pull down in wages? $18-20 an hour was the most common starting wage range that I found with Google, with UPS drivers able to pull down $70,000+ a year with overtime. Tips are not assumed to be part of their compensation, they receive all of their pay from their employer. Explain to me again why being a UPS driver is so much harder than being a delivery driver, to justify the massive pay disparity for what amounts to similar work.

Risk as in personal risk, as well as risk of damage to the personal vehicle if not supplied by the shop. I’ve been egged twice, had my car broken into twice, and had 3 other driver’s fault accidents in about 5 years of driving, think the shop offered any help at all? Maintenance is accelerated too, I had a 5 speed Nissan go through 2 clutches in 2 years, and don’t even get me started on brakes. That $.55/mile isn’t just about gas and oil changes, commercial vehicle use has many costs that aren’t obvious at first.

None of that is even touching the risk to my person that is part of the job, driving around late at night with a huge lit sign that says “I’m carrying cash and food”, often to sketchy areas. The military uses the term “hazard pay”, and I think it is a good one for describing the reasons that a driver should expect to be paid more than a similar entry level worker. Yes, it is a fairly unskilled position, but it does carry a not insignificant risk of personal injury, and that should carry with it additional compensation. With the tip system, it doesn’t even cost the employer anything out of pocket, so what’s the problem?

stridemiester:

Seems you would like to have your cake and eat it too. Drivers are an important cog in the system, but they can’t function without the rest of the team firing on all cylinders. Shouldn’t they participate in they rewards of a job well done?

Those other “cogs” as you call them, don’t have the assumption of tipping factored into their hourly wage. They also have far less of a direct impact on tipping, which has traditionally been tied to service, than does the driver. Finally, they don’t provide a vehicle at their own expense and risk their personal safety as part of their jobs. The tipping system may not be perfect (ask me about the “Free Rider Dilemma”), but it’s what we have to work with.

 

[Rockstar_pizza]

again the .55 is not something we pay you as a seperate wage. IT IS A DEDUCTION you can take on your tax return, its an allowance. Its considered a cost for you. ( like I take all that deduction since I supply all the vehicles.
BUT JUST CURRIOUS by the logic of the .55 can I deduct that from your pay since they are my cars…where do I get my .55?

 

[Uncle_Doug]

Rockstar pizza:

again the .55 is not something we pay you as a seperate wage. IT IS A DEDUCTION you can take on your tax return, its an allowance. Its considered a cost for you. ( like I take all that deduction since I supply all the vehicles.
BUT JUST CURRIOUS by the logic of the .55 can I deduct that from your pay since they are my cars…where do I get my .55?

I’m not clear as to whether all of your drivers are driving your company provided vehicle, or just some?

For those driving your company provided vehicle, plus you paying over minimum wage, they have nothing to complain about.

If you also have drivers on the road in their own cars (I think you said you had 2 company cars, I’m guessing you sometimes have more than 2 drivers on deck?) that you are NOT paying any kind of reimbursement, you are running dangerously close to a minimum wage violation, even by the most generous of standards. Gregster’s theory is that tips aren’t counted in the minimum wage argument, but being generous and saying that they are, at $7.00/hour with no reimbursement, this only allows for $0.45/hour in exceedence of federal min wage (soon to be $7.25), which is in essence nearly nothing. What puts you at risk is your common distance per delivery, and common tip from the customer. Is it out of the question for your driver to drive 4 miles per order ($2.20 IRS rate) and get $2.00 tips from the customer? Thats about all it takes for you to fall underneath the economics if you are not paying reimbursement, and assuming that federal law really does allow you to cover expenses with tips. Even if it is more common to have a 3.5 mile average and a $3.50 tip average, is it out of the question to have a bad night with 4+ miles and $2.00 tips? I doubt it, the delivery ebb and flow is very random sometimes. That isn’t fair to the driver to have any shift at subminimum wage.