Words from a delivery driver!!!

[Reuben]

PPG2270:

Penelope:

PPG2270:

Finally, I just want to ask where this “money for nothing” garbage is coming from? I am quite the fiscal conservative and believe that every able-bodied person should work or receive nothing from the government. But when businesses do not make it worthwhile to work (i.e being able to pay one’s bills with the paycheck,) they give an excuse to lazoids not to work.

But this horrible pay you received as a pizza delivery driver, you were able to pay for an online BS degree and now going for and now going for an MBA from Phonix degree?

Not that it is any of your business, but during the vast majority of my original master’s degree I held two jobs plus obtained Federal funding. So no, pizza delivery alone does not cover the cost of a master’s degree.

Wait just a minute. You accepted government handouts for your degree? How could you stoop to that level?

When I got my degree (with first class standing) I was delivering pizza full time for $2 per deliver plus tips, no wages just the $2 and out of that I paid my vehicle expenses. I had a house mortgage and 4 teenagers who were all involved in sports, music and dance. Every dime of my studies came directly out of my earnings as well as all the expenses of raising a family.

Bill, any respect that may have been there in the past is now gone. Be a self made man not a government subsidized puppet.

 

[NicksPizza]

The marketplace reality is that once an employee group looks to the government to legislate a minimum wage level, then those who have the least marketable skill set, meaning those whose skill set is possessed by the largest number of potential employees, will be forever set to earn that minimum level of compensation unless and until they differentiate themselves by havig a more desireable and marketable qulaity/skill. The thing that will change the culture of tipped drivers is a complicated discussion.

I can say with certitude that the answer is not in villifying the entirety of employers follwing the law whilst the employee group being touted is consitently the highest paid segment in the non-management market. Dude, pissing and moaning about minimum wages while drivers are the single highest paid employee group in the pizzeria marketplace is not going to gain much or any ground. Once they are taken from the “tipped employee” group, they will potentially price themselves right out of the market moreso than already has happened. Add to that the likelihood of higher work expectations placed in order for employers to realize the value needed for the higher wages.

This isn’t about an owner justifying some underhanded or shady practice. This is about the reality of anyone relying on solely on someone else’s institutional power (government) to drive the marketplace for you. Those drivers out there who stand on their own character, their own employability value and their own positive impact on a business . . . . they will either grow and thrive as a pizza driver . . . or have a powerful package of employability in many other jobs/careers. Probably not so lucrative as driver pies, but there are always trade-offs. When legislation is the standard, then you will get the standard. Just like a mandatory 18% tip on a receipt will provide certainty that a server will get an 18% tip . . . most every time . . . very often takes the decision making right out of the picture.

 

[Penelope]

qcfmike:

Ok so if you read my other post you will see I had Dominos tonight.

this is why you shouldn’t eat at Dominos :roll:

 

[system]

I WILL NEVER EAT AT DOMINOS EVER AGAIN!!! IT IS STILL A BAD TASTE IN MY MOUTH!!! A liter or two of Greygoose and a bottle of Listerine have still not removed the aftertaste!!!

 

[califood]

QUOTE…The real funny thing here is that I have personally not found one “Delivery Professional” that makes a low or bad wage and is complaining about their compensation, vehicle, tips, etc… Then again, when you look at those that make poor income in the service industry…there are always some working right next to them making great income with a positive attitude. Makes one think that the pay levels from the lowest to the highest has alot to do with how one does their job and not just how one is paid.[/b]​

One great thing about this country is that you don’t have to work at any place where you are unhappy. I don’t know who ppg2270 is but I recognize the mindset. He has been a driver and apparently been in one or two management positions so he thinks he knows the score about all those greedy business owners. I have not read that he has ever put his money on the table taking the risks, experiencing the gut-wracking pressure of meeting payrolls, etc. I have been in the restaurant business for more years than I wish to count. There has been some very good years and there has been times when I was walking the floor at night wondering how I was going to survive. Fear is a great motivator. But it is the fear of wondering how you are going to provide for your family that hangs the heaviest. So you just work harder and hopefully smarter. In my early years I worked for some good employers where I learned many valuable things. I also worked for some poor employers who took advantage but oddly enough I learned just as much from these employers. There were two or three employers who took the time to help me learn about business. At one company I worked a six day week for $150 a week (1970) and it was usually 9 to 12 hours a day. I was thankful for the job and the opportunity to learn. The owner ultimately built a very large and successful company that most any restaurant owner would recognize today. Wages per hour were the pits. This man was really tough on me at times and often lost his temper while yelling at me but boy did I learn. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I was not forced to work for him; I could have left in a huff complaining about being mistreated or whatever. I saw some things that this man did that I did not agree with at the time. After I opened my first restaurant I realized why he did them and had to do them to survive.
I love this country because most anyone can become what they are capable of becoming. I love this country because I can work hard and be successful or I can just put in my eight hours and a little less successful. For those who do not want to work it is even better today because the government will provide. The price of course is the loss of your personal freedom bit by bit. There is no better place in the world to maximize your God given abilities up to this point in time. Unfortunately we are on the brink of losing our freedoms. Something is wrong when 49% of the people do not pay income taxes and some of those actually get refunds. I think I read that at least 75% of the income taxes in this country are paid by the top 10%. Yet we hear that the rich are not paying their fair share. Something is wrong when 47% of the people in the country are on food stamps. Something is wrong when, as many operators in our area have discovered, it is difficult to fill vacant positions. We have found many situations where applicants just want a business name to give to the unemployment office to qualify for unemployment checks. Something is wrong when so many people are looking to the government to take care of them. Capitalism, rugged individualism, and plain hard work built this country; not government. Today capitalism is becoming a dirty word and the desire to work is ebbing. Thomas Jefferson said that (paraphrasing) this democracy would end when the people who would not work will have to be supported by the people who do work. It would end when the people find out that they can vote freebies for themselves by voting for the politicians who promise them. A member of the English parliament gave a speech a couple of weeks ago here in the U.S. He said that we Americans had better wake up. In England, he said, we are living the future of the U.S. if it stays on its present course. They have Euro Health Care, Euro schooling, Euro welfare and a very big government and none of it works. (Of course when in the history of the world has Socialism worked?) He said that Americans are not going to like what they are headed for and what we are now going through in England.
Life is not fair and never has been nor will it ever be but at least we have choices about what we wish to do with our lives. PPG2270 sounds like he would be happier living in a Socialistic country where the government rights all wrongs (as perceived by the government) and dictates virtually every facet of your life. The cost of such a system is simply your freedom. As an added thought, it always amazes me when people can expend so much energy and time railing against things over which they have no control instead of getting on with their lives. Maybe PPG2270 could do a great public service by actually starting a business with his own money and show us how he would correct all the ills and mistakes he describes instead of pontificating to no end.

 

[system]

Awwww.

Cali where have you been silently hiding from us! +1 8)

Just a side note: PIzza_Garden is the run-on sentence and paragraph police…beware of upcoming fines to be had!!! I think he is going to boot my keyboard (think parking tickets) to make his point!

Another note: Pizza_Garden and I have an ongoing exchange on this matter that is 100% joking and should not be taken seriously by anyone with less than 3 degrees, phd’s, or mba’s!

 

[wa_dave]

Cali.

Words never spoken more truthfully.
Don’t expect a reply on putting the money on the table from PPG because when I have posted similar in the past the silence was deafening.
So called “self learnt experts” on business, wages, working conditions etc such as PPG are full of socialist theory where it is wrong for people to invest everything they have and put it on the line to try and make it in their own business.
So someone “did him wrong” sometime ago. He needs to get a life and move on and stop lumping everyone together in the same basket just because he can’t let go.

 

[system]

Reuben:

Wait just a minute. You accepted government handouts for your degree? How could you stoop to that level?

When I got my degree (with first class standing) I was delivering pizza full time for $2 per deliver plus tips, no wages just the $2 and out of that I paid my vehicle expenses. I had a house mortgage and 4 teenagers who were all involved in sports, music and dance. Every dime of my studies came directly out of my earnings as well as all the expenses of raising a family.

Bill, any respect that may have been there in the past is now gone. Be a self made man not a government subsidized puppet.

Hey there have you guys missed me? Probably not, but that is beside the point. 8) Reuben, money for my graduate degree (big difference in price) is not a handout, but rather a loan that must be paid back (with interest). While the government backs student loans, banks are the one providing them. The banks are banking (lol) on my ability to earn money in the future based on my education. What a novel concept! Betting on the workforce is so much better than simply providing true subsidies like food stamps and stupid rules lobbied for and approved by the government (such as tip credit allotments). Besides, my tax dollars (and yours) bailed out the banks, so let them provide loans for things that really matter (like education). One thing that you can respect is the fact that I don’t sit on my rear end collecting food stamps paid for by your (and your employees) tax dollars. However, it really doesn’t matter if you are able to respect me or not because you have advocated for tip credit, and I cannot respect anyone who cheats drivers out of money.

 

[system]

After taking about 9 hours to decipher what cali said, the following is my response:

1. No one should look for a handout. Each and every able-bodied person in this country should be working in some capacity.
2. Thomas Jefferson lived in the 1700s, and his words are still true today. Similarly, The Consitution is the document by which all guiding principles of this great country should be obtained. Don’t like it? Head to Mexico (we could use some giving back).
3. Socialism has not worked anywhere it has been tried, and it never will (in a democratic, free-enterprise Republic such as the U.S.A.)
4. I am a PROUD FISCAL CONSERVATIVE/LIBERTARIAN.
5. Like it or not, this country has set a minimum wage. If ONE WORKING PERSON does not receive that wage, there is no point in having the wage in the first place. It’s ironic how one of the most dangerous jobs out there is able to be paid less than this mythical number. And yes, I am a former employee in many facets of the pizza business. I do not have to know everything about the business to state that if you cannot pay your employees at least $7.25 per hour there is something wrong with your business. This “something wrong” is either poor/lack of management or fundamental greed. Yes, it’s legal, but only bankrupt shop owners (financially, morally, or both) use this GOVERNMENT SUBSIDY lobbied for on your behalf by the likes of Herman Cain and the National Restaurant Association.

 

[Reuben]

PPG2270:

However, it really doesn’t matter if you are able to respect me or not because you have advocated for tip credit, and I cannot respect anyone who cheats drivers out of money.

There you go taking things out of context again. If you take the time to look through my posts I believe you will not find any support of the tipped wage laws on my part. I understand why some operators use the law but that does not make me an advocate for the law. I am amazed that an educated person can not differentiate between understanding why something is done and supporting what is being done.

Try at some point in your pontifications to use facts, and understand the facts that you are using.

To make things clear to you Bill, I do not pay any staff minimum wage, because when you pay minimum wage your bound to get minimum value for your money.

And finally I do not live in the same country as you therefore my tax dollars are not spent in the same way your tax dollars are.

 

[system]

Oh Mr. Bill…I feel it safe to say that nobody missed you at all. You contribute nothing, zero, zip… do any of those compute? Do you need another 9 hours to get out your leapster and sound out the big words? Now go report me for being mean to little ole Bill… We do all have therories about where you go for weeks at a time? Mine is you only get internet access every few weeks for being good in the “mental health industry”…ward? Other think work release for community service… then there is that you just cannot pay your internet bill and get cut off every so often! Whichever it is…we still all don’t care nor miss you! :!:

 

[NicksPizza]

PPG2270:

1. Like it or not, this country has set a minimum wage. If ONE WORKING PERSON does not receive that wage, there is no point in having the wage in the first place.

There you have finished your own argument, but refuse to acknowledge. The government has set a minimum wage. That minimum wage for pizza delivery drivers who regularly and reasonably expect to receive tips in the course of their duties, is 2.25 or whatever it is now, with the requirement that the employer must assure that wages plus tips equal the greater minimum wage of 7.25. Federal Law provides for it regardless of the means wherein it got there. . . . same as the law provides for the 7.25 regardless of the machinations that got us there.

Delivery drivers working for the tip subsidized minimum are receiving the federally required minimum wage, and your argument is specious. You simply cannot ignore an inconvenient paragraph or provision to continue spewing bile.

 

[eupher61]

NicksPizza:

PPG2270:

1. Like it or not, this country has set a minimum wage. If ONE WORKING PERSON does not receive that wage, there is no point in having the wage in the first place.

There you have finished your own argument, but refuse to acknowledge. The government has set a minimum wage. That minimum wage for pizza delivery drivers who regularly and reasonably expect to receive tips in the course of their duties, is 2.25 or whatever it is now, with the requirement that the employer must assure that wages plus tips equal the greater minimum wage of 7.25. Federal Law provides for it regardless of the means wherein it got there. . . . same as the law provides for the 7.25 regardless of the machinations that got us there.

Delivery drivers working for the tip subsidized minimum are receiving the federally required minimum wage, and your argument is specious. You simply cannot ignore an inconvenient paragraph or provision to continue spewing bile.

+1

 

[Chris1]

Ok so if you read my other post you will see I had Dominos tonight. Sorry to all the Dominos owners or workers that visit here but it was really bad! This post is about the 2 min conversation I had with a nice, clean, polite, on-time, sociable delivery driver. I said I was interested in their pay, hours, working conditions and could I ask him a few things. He said sure. Here is what I learned.

He works full-time. Make $5.75 an hour…so tip based. He works 5-6 shifts a week at around 40 hours total. He gets $1 of the $2 delivery fees. Averages 125 deliveries a week and around $3 tip each. Quick math tells me he makes somewhere around $730/week or $3100/month. This works out to around $37k/year. Not bad for delivering pizza. I also asked about his car. He drives a 2009 VW Jetta and says he spends about a tank of gas a week for work… around $40. Other than that he changes his oil and rotates his tires. He also made a point that he saves $25 a week for major car expenses but in the 18 months he has been driving…hasn’t spent a dime of it yet but thinks he will need brakes in a few months. He looked around 23 or so. I asked what he did before this and he said Bestbuy for $9 an hour…then laughed…and said he makes twice the money now!!!

The one thing I forgot to ask was what his job duties were when not on the road. I get the feeling he does what needs too be done but can’t say forsure.

Now I did not post this to start a pay debate…but just to make a point that even tip-credit workers can and do make a really decent wage working on this pay system. I also understand that not all work under this environment. I tend to believe what he said since it would make no sense to lie about making good money while you wait for my tip…or with a 2-3 year old car sitting in the drive that matches your story. Take it for what it’s worth. :idea:

Our drivers make double or tripple those numbers. My second year as a driver I bought a Mercedes SUV…but now that Im an owner, I could pay these kids in gold bars and still not get reliable help. We had to switch to foreign students this year just to get half the needed workers. In our area, kids simply dont need the money and when we cut out the liberal drug use in our take over, almost every long term experienced employee left. Our business suffered a roughly 60% drop this year due to understaffing and inexperience and t turned a dream come true into a nightmare. It really made me sit up and notice policital and social issues affecting our business.

 

[Chris1]

Our drivers make double or tripple those numbers. My second year as a driver I bought a Mercedes SUV…but now that Im an owner, I could pay these kids in gold bars and still not get reliable help. We had to switch to foreign students this year just to get half the needed workers. In our area, kids simply dont need the money and when we cut out the liberal drug use in our take over, almost every long term experienced employee left. Our business suffered a roughly 60% drop this year due to understaffing and inexperience and t turned a dream come true into a nightmare. It really made me sit up and notice policital and social issues affecting our business.

Let me add 1 more point. Trip Advisor users took notice of our staff issues as well and we were beaten brutally online. We do summer business in an island environment and its harsh. I can verify that. I grew up in family businesses and saw employees go to 20 funerals a year but it was nothing like im witnessing firsthand for myself. This country is in trouble laborwise.