Driver Compensation

[system]

Wizzle Wassell:

nicely side stepped!

My exact breakdown of compensation is available here:

Tip and Mileage Report

The only thing being sidestepped is compliance with minimum wage laws. Now that the lawyers have the scent of money, those widespread practices will mostly end in the next few years.

 

[system]

Daddio:

You say you are makeing more at sub minimum than you would at minimum.

I am making more AT MY SHOP than other drivers do AT OTHER SHOPS slower than us. I know this because many drivers come to our shop after working at the others complaining that they can’t get enough runs there.

 

[system]

Integraoligist:

your right, maybe i should change to what every place in my area does… pay the drivers nothing, and just let them work off tips alone, no minimum wage, no anything, technically they dont even work at all these places. Now, if i were smart, i would do that.

Are you saying that since other shops break the law, it makes it ok for all shops to do the same?

Is it ok for one place to exploit employees if other places do the same?

If the matter ever went to court, what would a judge say to that defense? Would it help or hurt the case?

Perhaps if people reported the other shops unfair labor practices to the proper authorities, they would be prosecuted, and other shops would be left with a much more fair and level playing field when it comes to wages and compensation?

 

[paul7979]

gregster:

Daddio:

You say you are makeing more at sub minimum than you would at minimum.

I am making more AT MY SHOP than other drivers do AT OTHER SHOPS slower than us. I know this because many drivers come to our shop after working at the others complaining that they can’t get enough runs there.

Does this mean that you LOSE less money working for your shop than others do working elsewhere. Because you have clearly stated that you lose money delivering pizzas. I can’t imagine why you still do it. Why anyone would continue on at a job that they lose money by working, the more they work, the more they lose?

When I worked full time (but the numbers were different) I was losing over seven thousand dollars a year, and I was getting paid .65 cents a run then and was paid ABOVE minimum wage then. I am now paid 4 per hour (while on the road) using tip credit at the very same store. Under my current situation I might be loosing about $1200 a year.

 

[Wizzle_Wassell]

gregster:

The only thing being sidestepped is compliance with minimum wage laws. Now that the lawyers have the scent of money, those widespread practices will mostly end in the next few years.

1. I asked a question as to ‘why you continue to do this’ in the same way you asked a few posts earlier ‘Why would someone do that?’ to an owner. Why continue in a job that loses you money it just doesn’t make sense.
2. Also why would you work in an industry, for an employer and with customers whom you seem to have so much contempt for? For example I quote your current personal sign off on your TTPG posts which is ‘Stupid animals starve and die. Stupid people order pizza.’ Doesn’t paint a great picture does it really? Bearing in mind the purpose of the TTPG is

to raise awareness that pizza delivery drivers are tipped employees. They deserve more respect than the negative stereotype. We also aim to educate the public about house numbers and other ways customers can speed their delivery time and make the process more enjoyable for themselves.

your statements don’t really do much in terms of self promosion. How do you think your customers would tip you if they knew you thought them stupid? As you say '‘Why would someone do that?’

1. Now the lawyers have the ‘scent of money’ they will as sure as day as night earn ‘their money’ whether this changes employment practises moving forward is a whole other question I’m afraid. You constantly state how poor the DOL is but you seriously think that they will change due to a law suit??

 

[system]

Wizzle Wassell:

1. I asked a question as to ‘why you continue to do this’ in the same way you asked a few posts earlier ‘Why would someone do that?’ to an owner. Why continue in a job that loses you money it just doesn’t make sense.

Don’t be obtuse. I still earn money overall. Just not as much as I should if the law was complied with. That is the money lost I am talking about.
Wizzle Wassell:

1. Also why would you work in an industry, for an employer and with customers whom you seem to have so much contempt for?

Because it is an easy job that fits my schedule needs and earns me a few extra dollars. The working conditions are generally good, but that does not excuse the industry for ignoring minimum wage laws or stupid customers from not tipping due to ignorance or just being cheap.
Wizzle Wassell:

For example I quote your current personal sign off on your TTPG posts which is ‘Stupid animals starve and die. Stupid people order pizza.’ Doesn’t paint a great picture does it really?

It paints a great picture. It’s called sarcasm. The stupid customers are the ones who do not tip even when they get excellent service. The sarcasm isn’t as ‘catchy’ when you spell it out like that.
Wizzle Wassell:

Bearing in mind the purpose of the TTPG is

to raise awareness that pizza delivery drivers are tipped employees. They deserve more respect than the negative stereotype. We also aim to educate the public about house numbers and other ways customers can speed their delivery time and make the process more enjoyable for themselves.

your statements don’t really do much in terms of self promosion. How do you think your customers would tip you if they knew you thought them stupid? As you say '‘Why would someone do that?’

You missed this part about the discussion board:

As a note of caution, be warned that some of the posts on this board contain shop talk and brutal honesty. The delivery drivers are off-the-clock. They may voice themselves much differently than if they spoke to a customer at work. The views expressed on this board do not represent every driver in every store, but they should.

Wizzle Wassell:

1. Now the lawyers have the ‘scent of money’ they will as sure as day as night earn ‘their money’ whether this changes employment practises moving forward is a whole other question I’m afraid. You constantly state how poor the DOL is but you seriously think that they will change due to a law suit??

The lawsuits bypasses the DOL. Money will be the pressure that changes the illegal mileage reimbursement schemes. Once companies learn that it is cheaper to pay full vehicle expenses instead of massive legal fees, fines, back pay and lower stock prices, the situation will take care of itself without the need for the DOL to intervene.

 

[Wizzle_Wassell]

gregster:

Don’t be obtuse. I still earn money overall. Just not as much as I should if the law was complied with. That is the money lost I am talking about.

Its not being obtuse. You ask this question to an owner and you are now being asked this same question as a driver. Bearing in mind how many times on this board you have posted how you lose money I am asking why you (continue to) choose to do so after you didn’t answer the first time I asked. What’s obtuse about that? When I ask its obtuse when you ask its what???
gregster:

Because it is an easy job that fits my schedule needs and earns me a few extra dollars. The working conditions are generally good, but that does not excuse the industry for ignoring minimum wage laws or stupid customers from not tipping due to ignorance or just being cheap.

Thank you for answering the question (it wasn’t hard was it!) No it doesn’t excuse anyone but it is your choice. YOU choose to work for this employer and accept these conditions. By staying you, in part, help to perpetuate this problem. If the majority of drivers in your store made a stand what would the owner do?
gregster:

It paints a great picture. It’s called sarcasm. The stupid customers are the ones who do not tip even when they get excellent service. The sarcasm isn’t as ‘catchy’ when you spell it out like that.

In what way is that sarcasm? and have have I spelt it out like that you did - its on a signature line, no other context. It doesn’t say anything about tipping or not.
gregster:

You missed this part about the discussion board:

As a note of caution, be warned that some of the posts on this board contain shop talk and brutal honesty. The delivery drivers are off-the-clock. They may voice themselves much differently than if they spoke to a customer at work. The views expressed on this board do not represent every driver in every store, but they should.

I don’t see that I have missed anything. I’ve just quoted the purpose as per the front page. The note of caution is somewhere else on the site (I’m yet to find it-but don’t bother linking to it) and certainly not in or near the purpose and not on the front page. Either way your statement about ‘people who order pizza’ does little to promote the professionalism of your cause IMO.
gregster:

The lawsuits bypasses the DOL. Money will be the pressure that changes the illegal mileage reimbursement schemes. Once companies learn that it is cheaper to pay full vehicle expenses instead of massive legal fees, fines, back pay and lower stock prices, the situation will take care of itself without the need for the DOL to intervene.

If only it were that simple, your obviously an intelligent guy but regardless of the rights or wrongs of the issues you see these lawsuits as a ‘silver bullet’ and IMO whilst there may be changes I don’t believe they will come anywhere near your expectations.

 

[D-No]

There are likely as many ways to compensate drivers as there are pizza companies. I’ve been with Dominos for about 24 years. Happily, I work for a GREAT franchisee. Our compensation is 6% of sales, and when you factor in hourly wage and tips, it’s no surprise that we have a dedicated group of lifers. I realize that my store is not like all Dominos franchises. One of my drivers moved to North Carolina a year ago. Two months ago, Shawn came back with tales of misery and woe at how cheaply, and poorly the store he worked for was being run.
I hear stories about the other deliver outfits in the area (Burlington, VT) that offer no compensation, or minimal compensation. Their turnover is unbelievable. When you pay your employees garbage wages, you’re ultimately going to have garbage employees. By paying more, you can be 1) more demanding, and 2) more selective. By offering a legitimate livable wage, you can actually cultivate career employees.
Our franchisee, and his children who are poised to take over when he retires, are guaranteeing the ongoing success of their family business. The ongoing success of the family business in turn guarantees the ongoing career position of the employee. Our store is a seasonally developed mix of long term family guys and college students who need to go home for the summer. By building a seasonally departing workforce, we can keep our labor in line during the slow summer months without cutting too deeply into the earnings of the lifers.
The bottom line with paying your drivers and insiders is that you’ll make tremendous gains in the long run by paying your people well. 40% of our crew has been on the job for 10 or more years and because of this, I don’t have to worry about how they’re treating customers, or how reliable they’re going to be. Reliablility, talent, and peace of mind in an often hectic environment are priceless. I’ve got a solid crew who knows what to do in pretty much any given situation, and that is a fantastic luxury from my perspective.

 

[system]

D-no, how many cents per mile does your compensation work out to?

 

[D-No]

On average? Roughly a dollar per delivery, or in terms of mileage, between $.45 and $.65 on an average night. Even at $.45 (that might happen if you got into a groove of taking longer runs), the driver reimbursement is going to amount to between $35.00 and $60.00 for a 10 hour shift.

 

[system]

D-No:

On average? Roughly a dollar per delivery, or in terms of mileage, between $.45 and $.65 on an average night. Even at $.45 (that might happen if you got into a groove of taking longer runs), the driver reimbursement is going to amount to between $35.00 and $60.00 for a 10 hour shift.

From another post:

D-No:

I manage Dominos Pizza in VT.

From everything I have heard about Dominos reimbursement, if your numbers are accurate, your store reimbursement amount is the exception rather than the rule. Most store reimburse at a rate that is typically between 20 and 30 cents per mile.

What is the radius of your delivery area and how many miles are traveled on average per run? Your numbers seem to indicate an unusually small delivery area with an average delivery distance of 1.53 to 2.22 miles.

 

[paul7979]

gregster:

Your numbers seem to indicate an unusually small delivery area with an average delivery distance of 1.53 to 2.22 miles.

Or possibly a store that dispatches lots of doubles and triples.

 

[Reuben]

I have found an easy solution to the problems that are caused when drivers think they are under compensated. I have fired all my drivers and bought cars for my 4 children (ages 22 to 29), I pay all the gas, insurance and maintenance. They are family so are not subject to many taxes and wage regulations. Plus they work harder than hired help because they have a stake in the business.

 

[Charles]

Excellent solution.

 

[Rick_G]

We’ve only got two kids now, and one is away at college. I’ve got to get the wife to start working with me on this staffing plan immediately

 

[D-No]

I’ve got a couple of drivers who tell me that other Dominos stores don’t pay as well as we do. Shawn recently came back from North Carolina and told me of a store in which the managers pretty much stayed in the office and they had a dozen drivers standing around. I don’t subscribe to the “manager as officer” notion, but rather as the guy who is capable of the most sustained high-level work. I heard vicious rumors of $0.31 per mile reimbursement as a flat rate. That’s criminally parsimonious in my estimation. If you pay your people poorly, you’ll only serve to cultivate poor people. If you pay them well enough to trap them as “lifers,” you’ll get high quality people who are fiercely loyal. Give me a group of well paid and ugly tempered mercenaries any time…

 

[pjcampbell]

So is it 31 CPM + federal minimum wage or what?

Well I agree about treating people poorly. The funny thing is that I believe the difference between cheap labor feeling like they are being treated poorly and being treated well is very small.

 

[system]

D-No:

I’ve got a couple of drivers who tell me that other Dominos stores don’t pay as well as we do. Shawn recently came back from North Carolina and told me of a store in which the managers pretty much stayed in the office and they had a dozen drivers standing around. I don’t subscribe to the “manager as officer” notion, but rather as the guy who is capable of the most sustained high-level work. I heard vicious rumors of $0.31 per mile reimbursement as a flat rate. That’s criminally parsimonious in my estimation. If you pay your people poorly, you’ll only serve to cultivate poor people. If you pay them well enough to trap them as “lifers,” you’ll get high quality people who are fiercely loyal. Give me a group of well paid and ugly tempered mercenaries any time…

^^^ Looks like someone knows how to tune the business model to easily meet minimum wage laws and full reimbursement for vehicle expenses.

 

[bodegahwy]

If it is true that the nationals are paying less than minimum wage they deserve what they get in these lawsuits and the decisions can not come soon enough. On the other hand, I don’t expect to loose any staff to the nationals as my drivers make between 2X and 3X the minimum wage on average and they drive my cars and burn my gas. On a really slow shift they might make as little as $10 per hour.

To answer the original question of the post: $6.00 per hour plus tips.

Drivers fold boxes, stock the drink cooler and do the dishes. If there are no runs ready, they might answer the phone.

 

[benmahoney]

I pay drivers the same as all other help. When not driving they are expected to do all functions that non drivers do. They receive $2.00 per delivery plus tips.