record internet orders

[Roger]

Re: reoord internet orders

Rob Dewey… Enough already! What is your deal? You just registered with this forum and you come right out of the gates fighting with people. These people that you are arguing with are good people that are valuable members to The Think Tank who have been posting here for a long time.

I have been a frequent reader of the other forum (PT) and I have seen many of your posts over there. You’re often arguing with people. When I came across this topic about internet ordering and saw that you had posted 3-4 times without turning it into an argument, I was surprised. But that all changed when you decided to make a smart @ss comment to Registered Guest where you implied that his workers were “so prone to mistakes”. You guys were having an intelligent conversation and then you had to go insult his workers, why? This is the kind of stuff you sometimes do over at the other forum and then you often turn it around to make yourself out as the victim.

Don’t get me wrong, you do have a lot of intelligent advice to add to this forum. But please do not turn every discussion into an argument. If you feel that you have to fight with someone, then pm them so every one else doesn’t read all of that nonsense. I’ve seen you many times at the other forum hijack peoples threads with your arguing. The arguments end up taking over the threads and that’s not fair to the thread starters who are looking for advice.

A lot of us have been posting on this forum for a long time and we have a really good community here that is very helpful to one another. There is very rarely any heated arguments that take place. So please don’t come into this forum and start arguing with everybody. We will all lose out in the end. Arguing will just drive people away. People come to this forum to share, offer advice and to get help. Not to watch a pi@@ing match! This is the best pizza forum on the web, lets keep it that way!

 

[RobDewey]

Re: reoord internet orders

Your premise is off, but brings up a good point. The conversation was very focused on one point which seemed odd for an owner to be concerned about. “Mr. Guest” seems to suggest he is a pizza owner, yet seems OVERLY concerned about tips. He does not respond to anything the guy who every day sells a lot of pizza online, he just stays on the tips.

This suggests to me he is probably really a driver, and if so, he can be up front about it. Maybe some of comments can be better understood when people know where he is coming from.

The logical answer to much of what he was saying was to recognize the guy is obviously having a lot of problems with delivery. I doubt they would be that big is he were an owner because he would fix the problem and move on. My comment really exposed his perspective. If you choose to interpret that as being an evil poster, that is your choice. However, it was both logical and thoughtful.

Frankly I am always surprised by people who consider themselves above anyone. I had the same experience with PT. I was dismissed because of what I do with little snide comments and references suggesting I am not as smart as any other person. Like you this was often done with veiled cursing. Why hide it?

I see it this way, if play the games with the arrogant, dismissive, snide, passive aggressive comments, than please do not get angry when it is escalated. Just because in your own life people permit that type of abuse does not mean I will accept it from you and simply go away.

If you were more honest about PT you would see as the wall of “he isn’t a pizza guy” has come down the level of real discussion has gone up. It is less superficial, it is more in depth and harder questions are worked…and when things get too intense we can even goof around with each other. The reality is we have all begun to have GREATER respect for each other. I can say in my case, Refried and Kris were and are my toughest critics, but I have sure as hell come to really respect them as we have gotten to know each other. I am hopeful they would say the same. As the relationship evolves it gets better.

Thanks, but I do not see much of any need to walk on eggshells with anyone.

 

[What]

Re: reoord internet orders

I’m a pizza owner and I cannot understand why we are wasting time with ROB.
I don’t post, I don’t have time. I read, get ideas, and make money.
Rob-Stop Talking

 

[NY_Pizza]

Re: reoord internet orders

What:

I’m a pizza owner and I cannot understand why we are wasting time with ROB.
I don’t post, I don’t have time. I read, get ideas, and make money.
Rob-Stop Talking

I also own a pizza place, and while I also have little time to post, I do so anyway - if you’re getting good ideas from others in this forum you owe it to others to contribute some of your own, as well. I have found that this works for selfish reasons, as well - it tends to focus my own efforts when I’m giving advice to others. End of sermon.

 

[RobDewey]

Re: reoord internet orders

Exactly and you owe it to everyone not to pretend you are the troll under the bridge deciding who gets to cross…

 

[MM1]

Re: reoord internet orders

That’s also a bit of a risk for “disputed” charges - you have no signed slip.
And there probably is a different “discount rate” your credit processor will apply with no signature -
I KNOW that the HIGHEST worst fees apply to “online ordering” - but you MIGHT qualify for a better rate with online pizza ordering IF you are actually getting a signed slip at the door upon delivery (unlike other online ordering - think about it - it DOES give everyone - you and the bank - assurance that someone has authorized the charge and received the product).

 

[MM1]

Re: reoord internet orders

I gotta say - having a FAX involved is an poor online process. I understand it is simpler than a POS integration, it can get you started, but it’s just kind of lame.

 

[snowman]

Re: reoord internet orders

RobDewey:

Your premise is off, but brings up a good point. The conversation was very focused on one point which seemed odd for an owner to be concerned about. “Mr. Guest” seems to suggest he is a pizza owner, yet seems OVERLY concerned about tips. He does not respond to anything the guy who every day sells a lot of pizza online, he just stays on the tips.

This suggests to me he is probably really a driver, and if so, he can be up front about it. Maybe some of comments can be better understood when people know where he is coming from.

First, there is no requirement for anyone to give any personal information about themselves. However, any owner who isn’t worried about how much a driver makes in tips is a fool. Tips are what makes the job worth doing. Even a “well-compensated” driver can make more money doing many other things – the tips are what makes it lucrative enough to keep coming to work. Also, I don’t know many drivers that would spend a lot of time on here reading posts and responding.

 

[Scott_Hack]

Re: reoord internet orders

A lot of people are still working with POS Systems that were never designed to accept online ordering. Thus, the work around.

 

[SMITH_JOHN]

Re: reoord internet orders

I am a shop owner.
After reading all of this childish arguing,I am now a shop owner with a headache…
I wish I never started reading on this subject.

 

[Big_SAL]

Re: reoord internet orders

Tuseday online…

today 15 online orders…avg ticket on Tues $21.47…which is .less than the weekend online orders…not surpising there…but FYI…

 

[Scott_Hack]

Re: reoord internet orders

I didn’t know that about the digital signature. Good to know. Of course the IP is only good if they are sitting at home and not in the parking lot of one of the hundreds of businesses that offer free WIFI…

I actually heard tonight that getting things integrated with DT was a hassle. For the sake of the operators running DT, I hope they get the ball moving in the right direction for their users.

 

[RobDewey]

Re: reoord internet orders

You may be right on that point, but I am assuming there is still a sign up process. I’ve actually never done it before.

We had a local TV station do this huge thing on thieves tapping into home wireless and what I told clients at the time about this huge threat is this…Most thieves are not terribly sophisticated and if they are you can believe they are not just driving around town looking to get on your network. This is the same, if they have the resources to sit in a Starbucks, set things up and start ordering pizzas with fraudulent credit cards you have a pretty odd person on your hands. For the average identity theft I would think one would want to get all the valuable merchandise that can be resold as fast as possible.

The other advantage with our processing, and I am sure others can do this as well, is you never even collect the card information. Hopefully it never happens, but it takes the possibility of an employee grabbing numbers. Probably more importantly if the customer’s card were stolen and someone came to you wondering if one of you people did something, your answer is your company does not have that information.

People like the old fashioned way, but you are safer online these days. You still have to be vigilent, as seen with the SuperDeliver Mealage.com people, to make sure things are done right.

 

[Rockstar_pizza]

Re: reoord internet orders

wow, I know have a migrane from reading these posts
my 2 cents we have online ordering it seems that it has been best for us with companys who like to order before we are open…so we have it right in front when we get in…I see it as another conveince for our customers
TIP with ours the card is run in shop and tip is added at door.
I WOULD NEVER TIP BEFORE SERVICE
and if my driver gets a 15.00 tip or 25cents it doesnt effect my bottom line, so it doesnt even put a bump in my thinking.

 

[wa_dave]

Re: reoord internet orders

paul7979:

Td your heart is so much bigger than mine!

Paul. I think he is starting to sound like our big “non-hippie” Nick - Peace and Love to all Mankind 8)

Dave

 

[Registered_Guest]

Re: reoord internet orders

RobDewey:

Snowman I am not saying he is or is not anything. I am saying he is not clear about his perspective. Read back on the posts and you will see me looking for his perspective. Clearly he skews way over to driver. One would think owners are most interested in selling pies. Tips are important, but I doubt they are all that important.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. You continue to repeat over and over again that tip are not important - while the actual owners on this site tell you they actually are very important. Why don’t you take a step back and mabye learn something here about tips from the people who actually know and live this every day? Tips are important because having emlpoyees is important.

My perspective is clear. I need employees to operate my stores. If my employees are not making money, I won’t have employees - and I wont be able to sell those pies you keep talking about. It’s very simple, really.

RobDewey:

We also verify the email address of the person which allows us to collect their IP address…So if they run a scam with someone’s card it is in theory pretty easy to go to the police, find out who owns the IP address (which is very easily traced) and track down the fraudster. You may have grainy video of the person giving you a bad card, I am going to have the actual address of the user and the police could investigate the person and know what they have been doing on the web just by going to the ISP with a subpeona. By the time they talk to the criminal they would have most everything they need.

You situation is not unique - so my comments do not pertain only to you. Your “in theory” qualification really nullifies the rest of your comments. The police do not care AT ALL about credit card fraud on this small of a scale - because the CC don’t care! Why? Becuase the CC company doesn’t lose a dime because all they do is charge back the merchant! I’ve had “stolen” cards charged back where I could - at any time - tell the CC company and/or the police the exact location of the person who used the stolen card, and even have a person identify the person. But they DON’T CARE. They are not interested in arresting someone for charging $40 on a stolen card number. PERIOD. So all of this great stuff of having IP addresses, tracing emails, etc - is just marketing poop and doesn’t change anything in the real world.

 

[RobDewey]

Re: reoord internet orders

Mr. Guest, your behavior is, to say the least outside the norm. It is one thing to be concerned about your employees, it is another to take it to the n’th degree. Your comment, “If my employees are not making money, I won’t have employees” makes my point. Your employees make money as the business makes money and grows, that is first. You are caught in this bizarre loop about the tips. I did not say they are unimportant, but typically a business owner is more interested in growing sales than hyperfocused on growing “quality tips”

The assessment of a business owner is, “does this bring us more money, do our customers want this, can I add this service without adding to my labor cost” and so on. A smart business person does not look at his/her store from the perspective of, “Will my people make good enough tips?”

I entirely agree with your comments about most police agencies and credit cards, hence my comment about the theory. My point is someonw would have to go to greater lengths to scam you because it is more difficult online. Online you have to have both the card and the numbers on the back of the card as well as the address and phone number of the cardholder to process the card in the first place. With any online ordering system you are going to have to have access to an email account because we are going to verify that information as well. This cuts down on your liability big time when measured against someone coming into your store and swiping the card and walking away when maybe you caught a bad picture of them on video.

NOW HAVING SAID THAT, the unknown is if something did happen you may find the cops are more interested simply because it is easier to track the person down. Basically they fill out the subpoena and send it to the ISP who tells them who the computer is linked to and they then make a visit. I am not sure they would, but it is better than having a bad picture and description.

I really cannot speak to the specifics of your concerns. We will be doing a survey early next year of our registered users and I think it would be a great idea to get a question in there about tipping before the order arrives. Not a hugedeal really, but I am curious…Personally when I order a pizza over the phone I always ask them to charge the tip when I call in the order. This does not seem like a surprising thing for the pizzerias and I know a couple of times different places ask if I want to include a tip for the driver when they take the order.

 

[snowman]

Re: reoord internet orders

RobDewey:

We also verify the email address of the person which allows us to collect their IP address…So if they run a scam with someone’s card it is in theory pretty easy to go to the police, find out who owns the IP address (which is very easily traced) and track down the fraudster. You may have grainy video of the person giving you a bad card, I am going to have the actual address of the user and the police could investigate the person and know what they have been doing on the web just by going to the ISP with a subpeona. By the time they talk to the criminal they would have most everything they need.

Wow… just wow… IP addresses are not easily traced. Most ISPs use DHCP and therefore lease IPs from a pool of IP addresses. The ISP is needed to determine who leased the IP at that given time. ISPs don’t hand that information out. It requires a court order in most cases. Second, a lot of people use webmail rather than connecting via pop3/imap4/smtp. Therefore, you can’t get the sending IP address from webmail, only the webmail server. Third, email addresses are a dime a dozen. Fourth, there just aren’t many people out there that are STUPID enough to order a pizza on a stolen credit card and have it delivered to their house. There are exceptions, but stolen credit cards are used to buy more exciting stuff (that can be resold) and dropped off at vacant houses, etc.

 

[RobDewey]

Re: reoord internet orders

Actually you are pretty much misleading people with what you do not know, Mr. Snowman

In most cases an IP address is entirely static. It is assigned by your Internet Service Provider (ISP). Where the provider has random IP addresses this is also traceable because the ISP can identify which account was using which IP address at what time. Of course they would not give that out except by subpoena. Even as we speak there is a bill going through Congress to require ISP’s to hold onto the data longer and get it easier.

If you are on a commercial server that information is instantly retrievable and usually just a phone call away.

Email goes through other servers and you are somewhat correct about that, except for the fact to get to any web-based email program like hotmail, yahoo, etc, you are using your ISP to get there. So it is traceable. When I get emails I can see the pop3/stmp information, but I can also see where you started.

People think they are anonymous on the web, but you do not realize your ISP gathers data and can see everywhere you have been, any emails you have are tagged with source information and the websites you visit collect huge volumes of data. We are using Google Analytics and believe me I can see on a map where everyone is coming from in what city, how many pages they looked at and some 81 other criteria. Believe me if you are someone running a game the police do not even need to visit you to have a record of what you were doing.

Believe me read one of these reports and you will know that George Orwell had no idea just what Big Brother was all about.

I agree people are not using cards to grab pizza, however, a previous post suggests there is greater risk of loss to fraud. Truth is the risk is less with most any online sales of any kind.

 

[Wizzle_Wassell]

Re: reoord internet orders

Rob

Tips are a key element of a drivers total remuneration. If you look back over many many posts here you will see that drivers make very good money on tips. Take this away (to any greater or lesser extent) and a stores drivers make less money. Who likes to earn less money???

Is the issue of tips therefore of interest to Owners - sure is. Is it THE most important area in terms of the store maybe not. Is it likely to be of interest to a store owner when they engineer how their (online) order process works?? ermmm YEP.

Re IP addresses - I echo the sentiment that CC co.s and police are not interested in CC fraud. I’ve had two or three incident where neither the police or the CC co. have been interested. If neither of them are interested then in what way will even having the IP address (even if you can get hold of it) be of any use? You can’t do anything with it as it still doesn’t prove that a particular person was using that PC or connection at that time.